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Thread: Starting Over

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    Starting Over

    Hi

    I'm new to this forum/community, new to a rented house with pool, new to BBB method but not new to DIY pool maintenance. The assessment after moving into this house and testing the pool water with TF-100 Test Kit is that it needs to be drained and refilled. It's a swamp, the water is about 4 years old, and the previous tenants said that the water will no longer hold chlorine.

    Test Results:
    pH: 7.5
    TC: 0
    Alk: 160
    CYA: half way to the 100 line

    Question: After refilling pool, what is the best way/best order to add new chemicals based on the BBB method?
    20K gallon, IG pebbletec, sand filter

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    Re: Starting Over

    After refilling pool, what is the best way/best order to add new chemicals based on the BBB method?
    Probably the best thing you can do after refilling is to test again and post those results. They will be different.

    Next, read "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School. Gain an understanding of what you are testing and what to do with your test results.

    Upon refilling, adjusting pH (if it needs it) and then adding chlorine will be the two most important things
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Starting Over

    wow, what a quick reply! thank you! I've read the ABC's, and just wanted to know if there was a recommended way to get things going again from scratch. I'll post the test results after refilling and start with the pH and chlorine as suggested. By the way, your test kit is AWESOME.
    20K gallon, IG pebbletec, sand filter

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    Re: Starting Over

    Thank you!

    A general guideline (but don't put this in the bank until you post your results)...

    1. Adjust pH to mid 7's if necessary.

    2. Add enough chlorine in the evening to get to 2-3 ppm

    3. Add enough CYA to get to 20-30ppm

    4. Plan on shocking the pool at this point but that depends on your results and some other things

    5. Adjust CH and TA if needed.

    6. bring CYA up further.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Starting Over

    Excellent, thanks again.
    20K gallon, IG pebbletec, sand filter

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    Re: Starting Over

    I'm just curious, I don't understand why water replacement is necessary? I understand it may be preferable to drain a swamp versus clearing it with a bunch of bleach.

    What is your current CH level?
    So CYA is 50ish? Which should be just fine.

    "Won't hold chlorine" sounds like a bunch of hogwash.

    What don't I understand?
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    Re: Starting Over

    Quote Originally Posted by harleysilo

    "Won't hold chlorine" sounds like a bunch of hogwash.

    What don't I understand?
    Nope, you're exactly right. The previous owners dodn't understand that chlorine is consumable. If there's algae in the pool, FC disappears because it's doing its job. Hence the idea that the water must be old and must be replaced. Since we all understand the chemistry, we know exactly what's going on. (What's the quote: All technology, if significantly advanced enough, is indistinguishable from magic.)

    In this case, water replacement will be required, but because of the high CYA levels, not because the water is old. (I'm reading "CYA is halfway to the 100 line" as CYA is greater than 100.)
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: Starting Over

    The two factors I'm basing water replacement on are these:

    1. The previous tenants reported that they worked with a pool service that recommended water replacement because they only way they could keep a chemical balance in the water was to use/waste tons of chlorine (because it disappeared so rapidly). This is what they meant by "won't hold chlorine."

    2. Smykowski is correct, the CYA is over 100 which, as I understand, is why they had to use so much chlorine, and which needs to be lowered by water replacement.
    20K gallon, IG pebbletec, sand filter

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    Re: Starting Over

    Ah! Carry on then!
    18'x43' Sport Pool
    19,000 Gallons Vinyl Liner 3'-3.5'-4'
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    Test Kits - Pool Calculator - Chlorine/CYA Chart - Pool School

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    Re: Starting Over

    Quote Originally Posted by harleysilo
    Ah! Carry on then!
    Just to be clear... carry on because of #2 above (CYA). Water doesn't wear out and lose its ability to hold chlorine.
    34K gal IG, 37'x40' lagoon, vinyl, Pentair IntelliFlo VS Pump, 500# Hayward sand filter, Jandy SWG, Raypac heat pump, 4 deck jets, Hayward Super Pump + deck fountain, Dolphin Oasis Z5

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    Re: Starting Over

    ok, pool is drained and refilled. Test results of new water are as follows:

    pH: 7.8
    TC: 0
    TA: 190
    CH: 200
    CYA: 0
    20K gallon, IG pebbletec, sand filter

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    Re: Starting Over

    so at 11:30am I added 35 oz of muriatic acid and 100oz of 8.25% bleach and left the pump on. I got home at 6pm, the pH is down to 7.5 but my TC is still 0. I'm assuming that's because I didn't add any CYA yet and the Arizona sun ate up the chlorine.
    20K gallon, IG pebbletec, sand filter

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    Re: Starting Over

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaTurtle
    so at 11:30am I added 35 oz of muriatic acid and 100oz of 8.25% bleach and left the pump on. I got home at 6pm, the pH is down to 7.5 but my TC is still 0. I'm assuming that's because I didn't add any CYA yet and the Arizona sun ate up the chlorine.
    That is likely. Also, you might have some organics in the plumbing and filter that the chlorine is eradicating.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Starting Over

    ahhh good point. I'll plan to add the CYA and more bleach tonight.
    20K gallon, IG pebbletec, sand filter

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    Re: Starting Over

    You may want to build an aerator to assist you in getting your TA down too.

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...l%20alkalinity
    ~31k gallon 18x36 IG, Vinyl LoopLoc Sahara, Hayward C-750 75sq' Cartridge filter, Pentair Intelliflow VS3050, SGS Breeze760 SWG, Homemade Aerators, SmartPool Nitro 52 Wall Climber, TFT100 XL, Borates, and a partridge in a pear tree :)

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    Re: Starting Over

    Thanks for those test results.

    It seems to work well to adjust TA last. I would suggest you get all your other parameters where they need to be (as you are doing) and then run for a week or so before addressing TA.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Starting Over

    will do. I've got two nylon sacks of CYA in now, 2lbs each, one in the skimmer and one in front of a return. Chlorine levels are finally coming up
    20K gallon, IG pebbletec, sand filter

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    Re: Starting Over

    duraleigh, you mentioned that I might want to shock the pool once I got TC to 3ppm and CYA to 20ppm. Is that still your advice? My current readings this morning:

    pH: 7.5
    TC: 3
    TA: 190
    CH: 180
    CYA: 20
    20K gallon, IG pebbletec, sand filter

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    Re: Starting Over

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaTurtle
    duraleigh, you mentioned that I might want to shock the pool once I got TC to 3ppm and CYA to 20ppm. Is that still your advice? My current readings this morning:

    pH: 7.5
    TC: 3
    TA: 190
    CH: 180
    CYA: 20
    Have you used the FAS-DPD chlorine test yet? That's the one with the powder.

    That will tell you within .2 (25 ml sample) or .5 (10 ml sample) what FC and CC are.

    Armed with the facts, you'll know what to do next.

    Remember, the goal here is not to have perfect numbers - nobody but a few of us here care about that - but to have super clear sparkly water. Fresh fill, clear water, no CC, shocking may be a waste of bleach. On the other hand, if the water is clear but just a little hazy, stop the algae in its tracks.

    If unsure, hit it hard with bleach. You're only out a couple bucks if it didn't need it, and many bucks ahead if you stopped it in time.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Starting Over

    Just to add to what Richard said, the 10 ml sample is accurate enough. No need for .2 ppm accuracy.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

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