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Thread: Now where do I start?

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    Now where do I start?

    Opened up pool as per usual given pool store instructions - 4 pounds of dichlor, waited an hour, added 1 qt 3-month algaecide, added mineral pac to XL Pro. Next day, water cloudy, T/A-140ppm, F/C - 0, T/C - 5.0, CYA - 30, pH - 7.4. Pool store said chlorine was "bound up" and I needed to add 9 gallons 12.5% liquid chlorine. I performed the bucket test to make sure and it seemed to confirm their results. So I added the 9 gallons. After three hours, T/A - 180, F/C - 0, T/C - 5.0, CYA - 25, pH - 6.8. I also tested ammonia and it's 10.0 PPM. So now I seem to have all sorts of problems. But where do I start? I'm assuming raise the pH and add stabilizer, but how much chlorine do I need to add to overcome the ammonia issue? BTW - pool is still cloudy. HELP PLEASE!!!
    20,000 gallons vinyl, I/G, 4 cartridge filtrs, 2 HP dual speed Hayward Super Pump, Pool Frog XL Pro automatic chlorinator (trichlor tabs), built 2008, Phantom auto cleaner (rarely used)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Now where do I start?

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    First. Read Pool School (button at the upper right) and learn the chemistry and stop listening to a pool store.
    Second. Order one of the recommended test kits to take control of your pool.

    We do not recommend the Pool Frog, and certainly not the version that adds minerals that can only cause problems. If you maintain adequate FC based on your CYA level, there is no need for minerals or algaecides ... which are just a waste of money.

    So, here is what is going on in your pool. Likely at the end of the season you had VERY high CYA due to an overuse of tablets. Over the winter you got the magic bacteria that converted most of your CYA into ammonia. Now you have to add a LOT of chlorine to break down the ammonia before it can finally start to work on clearing your pool.

    We do not recommend dropping nuke loads of chlorine (9 gallons ) into the pool at once as that can damage the pool. But, since you have such a high ammonia load, you likely did not do any damage.

    With the correct test kit and following the instructions in the shock PROCESS (see Pool School), you can eliminate the ammonia and clear the pool.

    -OR-

    You can continue trusting the pool company that is in business to make money. Trying to do both and follow advice from 2 sources will just cause confusion and waste everyone's time and your money.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Now where do I start?

    Please don't follow the advice of the pool store - they will take your money and compound your problems. To add on to Jason's advice - read this article: http://www.troublefreepool.com/openi...nia-t6711.html
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Now where do I start?

    I read through Pool School, including the Shock Process, the Chlorine/CYA chart and the Pool Calculator. I want to make sure I understand this all, before I start the shock process. I've turned off the XL Pro. According to the Chlorine/CYA chart, the Schock level is 10. Using the pool calculator it says I have to add 249oz of 12% bleach. So I add this very gradually at the deep end return. Then I wait at least an hour then retest using the K-2006 testing kit. If I'm still not registering FC, do I add another 249oz and continue this process until the FC registers at 10? Thanks for your help!
    20,000 gallons vinyl, I/G, 4 cartridge filtrs, 2 HP dual speed Hayward Super Pump, Pool Frog XL Pro automatic chlorinator (trichlor tabs), built 2008, Phantom auto cleaner (rarely used)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Now where do I start?

    What is your current CYA level? The shock FC level is indeed 10ppm, if your CYA is 20ppm or less. ... Although playing with the pool calculator, I think you just have a typo above and that you are using a shock level of 12ppm for your 30ppm CYA ... right?

    I too get the 249 oz of 12%. Your processes is almost correct. When you test an hour after adding the chlorine, you need to change your NOW FC number to what the test reads to know how much more to add. But, if it is all the way to zero, then 249oz would be correct.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Now where do I start?

    Progress. Added chlorine, re-tested and am now at FC = 4, so I slowly added more chlorine. I will test again one more time before I go to bed. I know I'm supposed to leave the filter running, but do I leave my auto-cover completely open, partially open or closed?
    20,000 gallons vinyl, I/G, 4 cartridge filtrs, 2 HP dual speed Hayward Super Pump, Pool Frog XL Pro automatic chlorinator (trichlor tabs), built 2008, Phantom auto cleaner (rarely used)

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Now where do I start?

    I would say open.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Now where do I start?

    How are you testing your water?

    Your TA went from 140 - 180. CYA went from 30 - 25. PH from 7.4 - 6.8.

    There is so much fluctuation going on in your results, it leads me to believe you don't have a proper test kit, are using strips or letting the pool store test your water. It would greatly benefit you and your pool to invest in a TF100. With that test kit, Pool School and the sound advice from this forum, we can help you get your pool back on track. Please stay away from the Pool Store as the others have stated. They're really only in it for the money.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Re: Now where do I start?

    I was using a test kit that I purchased at Leslie's and also had them test my water. Now, I'm using the k-2006 kit that was also recommended.
    20,000 gallons vinyl, I/G, 4 cartridge filtrs, 2 HP dual speed Hayward Super Pump, Pool Frog XL Pro automatic chlorinator (trichlor tabs), built 2008, Phantom auto cleaner (rarely used)

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Now where do I start?

    Just stick with the K2006. I'm not concerned about the TA test variations or the CYA its in the 20-30 range which gives you a ballpark. I wouldn't bother having Leslie's test for you it will just confuse things. Stay the course
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Now where do I start?

    I have an ammonia test kit that goes up to 8ppm and when I tested it yesterday before I went to bed, it read at least at the 8ppm (it may have been a shade darker). Does this mean I have to reach shock level of at least 80ppm? I'm assuming this is not a good idea because of my vinyl liner, so am I better off draining some of the pool water before continuing? How much should I drain?
    20,000 gallons vinyl, I/G, 4 cartridge filtrs, 2 HP dual speed Hayward Super Pump, Pool Frog XL Pro automatic chlorinator (trichlor tabs), built 2008, Phantom auto cleaner (rarely used)

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Now where do I start?

    I honestly would recommend you drain at least half of the water to lower the ammonia level - it will go much faster that way. Leave at least 1 foot of water in the shallow end to ensure no harm to the liner when draining.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Now where do I start?

    The nightmare continues Ugggh!!!! I started draining my pool. When I went out to check on it, I can see that the liner has started to pull from the side on the deep end. There is about 20" of water still in the shallow end and about 4.5ft in the deep end. I've stopped draining it. Is it safe for me to start to refill it? What can happen? HELP PLEASE!!!
    20,000 gallons vinyl, I/G, 4 cartridge filtrs, 2 HP dual speed Hayward Super Pump, Pool Frog XL Pro automatic chlorinator (trichlor tabs), built 2008, Phantom auto cleaner (rarely used)

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Now where do I start?

    Sorry didn't see this sooner - was doing pools till 7:30...

    That was probably already happening. Its not uncommon at all - I see it in 75% of the inground pools. The liner can be slipped back into the track. get her filled back up it will be ok.

    Edit: You may have to do a series of drains/refills to accomplish lowering the Ammonia level to a workable number.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Now where do I start?

    The liner is still in the track at the top but around the south and east sections of the pool the liner is bubbling out from the wall. It looks like if I fill it, it will crease. It had a couple of minor crease before but will this be one big crease if I fill it up again?
    20,000 gallons vinyl, I/G, 4 cartridge filtrs, 2 HP dual speed Hayward Super Pump, Pool Frog XL Pro automatic chlorinator (trichlor tabs), built 2008, Phantom auto cleaner (rarely used)

  16. Back To Top    #16
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Now where do I start?

    You don't usually get creases in walls, mainly floors. Try filling it very slowly and watching to see if there is creasing... if you can monitor and shift the liner at all. Do you have a high water table? Is it water behind the liner or air?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Now where do I start?

    I called the guy that closes our pool and he said it was probably water, but my husband pushed on it and it feels like air. I don't think we have a high water table; we never have water issues. How would we shift the liner if the top is snug in its track?
    20,000 gallons vinyl, I/G, 4 cartridge filtrs, 2 HP dual speed Hayward Super Pump, Pool Frog XL Pro automatic chlorinator (trichlor tabs), built 2008, Phantom auto cleaner (rarely used)

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Now where do I start?

    I think the liner is fine. We do have a wrinkle in the wall, but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to work it out once the water is warm enough for me to get into. I am in the process of doing a series of drain and fills. What's a workable ammonia level? Before I start the schock process, do I raise the pH and add stabilizer? I'm assuming the pH will be right around 7.0 as it will be mostly fresh tap water and the stabilizer will be lower. And do I shock to the level of the CYA chart or higher because of the ammonia. I've read any where from 7-10x ammonia level. TIA!
    20,000 gallons vinyl, I/G, 4 cartridge filtrs, 2 HP dual speed Hayward Super Pump, Pool Frog XL Pro automatic chlorinator (trichlor tabs), built 2008, Phantom auto cleaner (rarely used)

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