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Thread: Pump To Waste

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    Pump To Waste

    This is driving me crazy... any help would be greatly appriciated.
    I get Algie blooms and have np shocking them to oblivion, but I really want to vacume to waste after the shock.

    What is the best option for me to vacume to waste?

    I think I have a very common set up.
    Above ground 24' round pool. Has a 1.5hp pump that goes to a hayward filter (pleated 3ft tall / 1ft wide).
    In between them is a 3 way ball valve that I can put a garden hose on to drain the pool.

    So Pool ---> Hose ---> Pump ----> Valve ----> Filter ----> Hose -----> Pool
    |
    Spiget for garden hose

    So as you can see I can't vacume to waste on this system. I have tried the following.
    Use the garden hose but the pump loses suction.

    Option 1)
    Remove the drain plug in the bottom of my filter may work to vacume to waste ?

    Option 2)
    Buy a pump that allows me to do what I want. This is the one I think I want to go with, but I am not sure what to buy.

    I am not woried about losing water in the pool as I'll just fill it up after. I just want something simple. I want to be able to vacume out the bottom any time I feel like it w/o all the junk going back into the pool.
    A pump, a Hose and a Pole... but what pump should I buy ?

    Again any suggestions is very much appricated. I just don't understand enough about suction to know what I am doing.
    24Ft Round 16k Gal, AG, Hayward DE 50AC, 2.0HP Pump, 2004.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pump To Waste

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    A different pump will not add backwash capability that happens in the valving on the filter. What equipment do you have? Please add your pool details and location as described HERE as it will help us help you. Maybe add a picture of your setup.

    One possible solution is to add a 3-way valve between the pump and filter, then you could divert all the flow to a new waste hose instead of into the filter.

    BTW, you should not be getting just back into the pool when vacuuming, that would indicate a problem with your filter.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Pump To Waste

    Thanks for the quick response. And thanks for the Welcome.

    I updated my signature as suggested with details of my setup.
    I am not posting chem readings because pool isn't open yet, and it's not totaly related to information I am asking.

    In response to your post, I do have a 3 way between pump and filter, but it's a small hole (garden hose size), maybe just replacing it with a large 1 inch ? 1.5 inch or 2 inch hole will allow me to avoid the filter and vacume to waste going out the larger hose.

    I wasn't suggesting attaching a 2nd pump. I was suggesting just buying a 2nd one and using it with a hose and pole to do the vacuming.
    So I woudn't attach my vacume pole to my skimmer, but just to a 2nd pump outside the pool. Is this even possible? I mean the current setup seems to be a "Closed" system.

    As you mentioned my filter is the issue. I hate my cartridge filter, so I am going to replace it with a DE one this season. But the Hayward DE one that I am looking at (Hayward Preflex DE EC65A)has some pump action thing on it, and it doesn't need or support back washing, so it's like I am back at square one.

    I just want to be in the position that if I need to vacume the bottom of my pool, I can do so and the water leaves the pool.
    Just not sure what the best way to accomplish that would be.

    Thanks tons
    Phil
    24Ft Round 16k Gal, AG, Hayward DE 50AC, 2.0HP Pump, 2004.

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pump To Waste

    Ah, I see what you were saying about the added pump. Since you did not post a picture, I am still not sure of your equipment setup.

    You could accomplish the same thing as your 2nd pump idea by just disconnecting the hose after pump ... but since it is AG pool, the water would drain even with the pump off.

    If you can remove the fitting that hold the hose bib, then you could certainly just put a larger hose there and have a waste setting ... but not seeing a picture, I do not know how easy removing the hose bib and fitting is.

    I don't think I am a huge fan of the bump DE filter ... not sure why though

    What size is your filter it could be that it is just too small for the large 1.5HP pump (which is certainly larger than you need).
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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  5. Back To Top    #5
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Pump To Waste

    Welcome to tfp, philTwinLakes

    That DE filter you are contemplating is a little small (27 sq. ft.) for your pool. We would recommend a minimum 42 sq. ft. DE filter. With that said, if you are often having to clear algae (which is not normal when following the methods on tfp), then imo a sand filter would be a better choice.

    Like jbliz, I am wondering about your filter. Could it be damaged and allow stuff to bypass the media? Cartridge filters are more difficult when dealing with algae. Maybe you should post some test numbers (when you can get them) and we could help with the reoccurring algae you seem to be dealing with.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Pump To Waste

    Ok, I am going to say a few things different than the others here, first off I have an EC-75 and love it, the general rule of thumb for DE filter sizing does not really apply to these Hayward Perflex filters since you can "bump" them a number of times between each full flush and refill. The only bad thing about these Perflex filters is they do not like to be abused, running them clogged up will result in torn DE fingers, but as long as you check the filter pressure every day or two and bump / flush and refill as needed they are great.

    Now down to your problem, you have something odd going on here, your pump should not loose prime (suction) by opening a valve down stream from it. I suspect your real problem may be a suction side leak, when you have your filter hooked up it causes back pressure, this limits flow of the pump, when you open the waste / drain valve you lower back pressure letting your pump flow more water. It is very possible since you have an above ground pool that gravity feed alone was supplying enough water to feed the pump when the filter is connected, but once it is disconnected your pump starts sucking water faster than gravity can provide, this either then lets a suction leak (perhaps in the pump lid) show up, or it is sucking so much water as to form a whirlpool in the skimmer and starts sucking air there and loosing prime.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Pump To Waste

    you can add an drain to the bottom of the cartridge filter. Here's my story:
    adding-a-to-waste-drain-to-plumbing-solved-t35088.html?hilit=adding%20drain
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Pump To Waste

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac-1
    Now down to your problem, you have something odd going on here, your pump should not loose prime (suction) by opening a valve down stream from it.
    I was assuming the ops only output at that point was the garden hose (swtiched the valve) which will restrict the flow significantly and likely reduce the "vacuuming power"?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Pump To Waste

    that is true, I was thinking of it as being a valve T'ed off the line not a multi-way fitting
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: Pump To Waste

    linen you stated that the filter I am considering maybe too small. Hayward has different sizes, but since my pools is above ground it looks like only the
    EC40 or EC50 would work for me.
    Can an inground filter be used in an above ground pool (EC65 or EC70) ?
    Aso are the Preflex filters newer design or older design from the Grid filters?

    http://www.hayward-pool.com/prd/Above-G ... 4018_A.htm

    http://www.hayward-pool.com/prd/In-Grou ... 5516_I.htm
    24Ft Round 16k Gal, AG, Hayward DE 50AC, 2.0HP Pump, 2004.

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pump To Waste

    Any filter can be used with any pool ... inground filter will be fine for your above ground pool.

    I have no experience with the "bump-type" preflex DE filters. Some people seem to like them.

    The EC65 is still too small ... you want a minimum of ~42 sqft. The EC75 would likely be fine.

    Although, I wonder if our usual size recommendations apply to this type of filter as they do not have to be fully backwashed and cleaned as often.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Pump To Waste

    I just remove the drain plug at the bottom of mine and run. It shoots the water out at a high rate. I may even this year add a valve to this and eliminate the cap all together. You can also take the filter out before doing this. When I re-plumb with PVC this year I am adding a shut off to the return aswell. So this combination (remove filter, close valve at return, then open drain cap on bottom of filter) should do the trick just fine.
    21'X52" AGP
    Brominator
    1 1/2 hp pump
    Cart Filter.
    More to come soon as I am a Newbie!!!

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