Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 29

Thread: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine pool

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    81

    Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine pool

    So i was reading around and stumbled across this...

    Seems that if you go up to about 1800ppm you shouldn't notice the taste at all yet have "softer" water?

    How many have done this and is it a noticeable difference?

    Also any long term issues with the extra salt in the water and around the house, yard, equipment, etc....

    Whats the deal with the borates?

    Man so much to see and learn on this site!
    18x37 Vinyl Grecian (24k gals) 8' Inter fab(la mesa) Diving board w/ waterfall & Led, Pentair Laminars & Intellibrite 5g

    Star Rite System 3 Cartridge Filter, IntelliPro 3HP Variable Spd Pump, Max E Therm 400k BTU,
    Pentair Easy Touch 8 & actuators,...Now looking to BBB

  2. Back To Top    #2
    linen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    8,649

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    Quote Originally Posted by blownby
    Whats the deal with the borates?
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/so-yo...how-t4921.html
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    I have added salt previously without a SWG to improve the feel ... this was after moving from a house that had a SWG.

    After a recent water change, I have not added more yet, for various Chem 201 reasons, but will be going back to salt. I never had a problem with the salt affecting anything around the pool.

    SWG typically want around 3500 ppm of salt which is still only 10% of the ocean's concentration.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    81

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    Ok,

    So is it worth the effort of adding salt or borates for water feel?
    Which route is better/preffered? Salt, or Borates or both....
    18x37 Vinyl Grecian (24k gals) 8' Inter fab(la mesa) Diving board w/ waterfall & Led, Pentair Laminars & Intellibrite 5g

    Star Rite System 3 Cartridge Filter, IntelliPro 3HP Variable Spd Pump, Max E Therm 400k BTU,
    Pentair Easy Touch 8 & actuators,...Now looking to BBB

  5. Back To Top    #5
    dafuzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    66

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    I have both, and wouldn't have it any other way.
    ~31k gallon 18x36 IG, Vinyl LoopLoc Sahara, Hayward C-750 75sq' Cartridge filter, Pentair Intelliflow VS3050, SGS Breeze760 SWG, Homemade Aerators, SmartPool Nitro 52 Wall Climber, TFT100 XL, Borates, and a partridge in a pear tree :)

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    There is no effort involved in adding salt, besides carrying all the bags one time.

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    81

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    Quote Originally Posted by dafuzz
    I have both, and wouldn't have it any other way.
    Suggestions then for how much of each or what levels to aim for for each to feel so Oh so silky smooth!!
    Also what products and where do you suggest I look.


    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    There is no effort involved in adding salt, besides carrying all the bags one time.
    Hahah Guess I meant the cost more so!
    18x37 Vinyl Grecian (24k gals) 8' Inter fab(la mesa) Diving board w/ waterfall & Led, Pentair Laminars & Intellibrite 5g

    Star Rite System 3 Cartridge Filter, IntelliPro 3HP Variable Spd Pump, Max E Therm 400k BTU,
    Pentair Easy Touch 8 & actuators,...Now looking to BBB

  8. Back To Top    #8
    dafuzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    66

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    I bought enough Boric Acid from dudadiesel.com for 50ppm, and brought my salt up to ~3000ppm, I did this in advance of getting my SWG installed. For the next few weeks, I'm just using straight bleach for sanity. Or is that sanitize? Same thing methinks.
    ~31k gallon 18x36 IG, Vinyl LoopLoc Sahara, Hayward C-750 75sq' Cartridge filter, Pentair Intelliflow VS3050, SGS Breeze760 SWG, Homemade Aerators, SmartPool Nitro 52 Wall Climber, TFT100 XL, Borates, and a partridge in a pear tree :)

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    The cheapest salt is the solar salt you can find at a hardware store ~$4/40lbs.

    You can shoot for about 2000ppm to get most of the feel ... may want to test first as all forms of chlorine add salt already. Use the poolcalculator to determine how many pounds you need to add.

    Borates is more effort as you have to add the borax and the acid and have to have the TA lowered before you start which can be a lot of work.

    I would start with the salt and see if you need the borates.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  10. Back To Top    #10
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    When using salt just for water feel, a level around 2000 ppm is good. Borates are best in the 30 to 50 ppm range.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    81

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    Ok, My tf 100 test gets here today. But looks like I will need a test kit for borates and salt. Salt should be easy. What about borates?

    I will start with salt first and see how the feel is? Should I am for 2000ppm still with no plans for a SWG presently.
    18x37 Vinyl Grecian (24k gals) 8' Inter fab(la mesa) Diving board w/ waterfall & Led, Pentair Laminars & Intellibrite 5g

    Star Rite System 3 Cartridge Filter, IntelliPro 3HP Variable Spd Pump, Max E Therm 400k BTU,
    Pentair Easy Touch 8 & actuators,...Now looking to BBB

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    You could have a pool store test for salt ... they may not test for borates. Or buy yourself a kit.

    Yes aim for 2000ppm without a SWG ... SWG generally want closer to 3500ppm.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    81

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    Does the borates level fall much given I use a cartridge filter and will pretty much nbe adding water due to evaporation and splashing>
    18x37 Vinyl Grecian (24k gals) 8' Inter fab(la mesa) Diving board w/ waterfall & Led, Pentair Laminars & Intellibrite 5g

    Star Rite System 3 Cartridge Filter, IntelliPro 3HP Variable Spd Pump, Max E Therm 400k BTU,
    Pentair Easy Touch 8 & actuators,...Now looking to BBB

  14. Back To Top    #14
    dafuzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    66

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    Quote Originally Posted by blownby
    Does the borates level fall much given I use a cartridge filter and will pretty much nbe adding water due to evaporation and splashing>
    I bought extra, for example, ~31k Gallons, is roughly 75lbs Boric Acid. Obtained 2 55lb Pails, measured it by eye, went over a wee bit. Have partial pail in reserve to add as needed.

    I'm in North Florida, where the humidity is oft-times lower, and it rains quite a bit. So I have extra salt and boric acid should the need arise. I was a Boy Scout, so I tend to lean towards being prepared
    ~31k gallon 18x36 IG, Vinyl LoopLoc Sahara, Hayward C-750 75sq' Cartridge filter, Pentair Intelliflow VS3050, SGS Breeze760 SWG, Homemade Aerators, SmartPool Nitro 52 Wall Climber, TFT100 XL, Borates, and a partridge in a pear tree :)

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    81

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    Thanks! Any issues to using Solar salt opposed to some other form of salt?
    18x37 Vinyl Grecian (24k gals) 8' Inter fab(la mesa) Diving board w/ waterfall & Led, Pentair Laminars & Intellibrite 5g

    Star Rite System 3 Cartridge Filter, IntelliPro 3HP Variable Spd Pump, Max E Therm 400k BTU,
    Pentair Easy Touch 8 & actuators,...Now looking to BBB

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    81

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    Also where did you get the pails of the Boric acid??
    Is it cheaper or easier to use than Borax
    18x37 Vinyl Grecian (24k gals) 8' Inter fab(la mesa) Diving board w/ waterfall & Led, Pentair Laminars & Intellibrite 5g

    Star Rite System 3 Cartridge Filter, IntelliPro 3HP Variable Spd Pump, Max E Therm 400k BTU,
    Pentair Easy Touch 8 & actuators,...Now looking to BBB

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    Pool salt = solar salt that has been put through a grinder. Same stuff.

    Just look for solar salt with no added "stuff"
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    81

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    Gracias!
    18x37 Vinyl Grecian (24k gals) 8' Inter fab(la mesa) Diving board w/ waterfall & Led, Pentair Laminars & Intellibrite 5g

    Star Rite System 3 Cartridge Filter, IntelliPro 3HP Variable Spd Pump, Max E Therm 400k BTU,
    Pentair Easy Touch 8 & actuators,...Now looking to BBB

  19. Back To Top    #19
    dafuzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    66

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    I'm writing this post as a reply, but if it meets standards, it can be used by others as a reference.

    If you desire to go the way of the borate, you should familiarize yourself with this thread:

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/so-yo...how-t4921.html

    In that first post, Boric Acid isn't discussed, but further on in the thread it is, as well as other threads you can free search the forums here for "boric acid" to get ideas.

    Then, go to:

    http://www.poolcalculator.com/

    See how much Boric Acid you need according to how much water you have in your pool. I would pay particular attention to inputting correct numbers; as you may have already added Borax and have a borate level already. I did not, as I had just filled the pool. It is also understood and those in the know harp on the importance of having TA and PH at the recommended levels. I can now see why this is, as my PH runs low normal, no matter how much I aerate since adding the borates. Suffice to say, I'm sold on what I perceive to be facts listed in the borates thread and elsewhere.

    In order to accurately make sure you can input numbers in the pool calculator, one needs a good test kit. I bought mine via TFP, and added on the Borate and Salt test strips. I got it in a hurry, too. It has been worth its weight in gold to me, even though I have several pool stores within an easy driving distance. And yes, I do randomly take water to the various stores, just to check things out, as I'll probably do a shame post on the over-selling that happens. Here's the link for the test kit:

    http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html

    So, now one has read up on the process, gone through the chemistry involved, and got things in check according to the established parameters. Now you're ready to borate your pool. Instead of going the Muriatic Acid/Borax route, I found it much cheaper and easier to buy bulk boric acid via DudaDiesel. They'll only ship it via FedEx Ground. If you don't need much, you can get it with free shipping. But I also found the price is quite close, and perhaps a wee bit cheaper to get a larger size and pay the freight. It is further suggested to get the granular boric acid and brush it in, versus buying the powder, which is reported to clump. Took an hour in 74 degree water to brush in the boric acid. AND, the plastic pails are nice and tall, and they make a nice sitting stool

    Here's the link:

    http://www.dudadiesel.com/

    You can also search ebay, as DudaDiesel has a store there as well. Compare prices, when I first searched, there was a few dollar savings on Ebay even with the fees, but when I was ready to buy, it was the same exact price either way.

    My caveat to adding borates: Once you get the boric acid ordered, test again with your test kit, then test the next day, and right before you add. Make sure that any changes you may wish to make to PH and TA are complete, and have stabilized for a few days. Measure twice, cut once as an old carpenter told me....
    ~31k gallon 18x36 IG, Vinyl LoopLoc Sahara, Hayward C-750 75sq' Cartridge filter, Pentair Intelliflow VS3050, SGS Breeze760 SWG, Homemade Aerators, SmartPool Nitro 52 Wall Climber, TFT100 XL, Borates, and a partridge in a pear tree :)

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    81

    Re: Adding salt/ borates to soften water feel in a chlorine

    great post. Thanks,
    I just got the tf-100 test kit. I need to get a salt & borates test kit.
    I read a little way thru the thread linked, but it does get rather long!

    I have the understanding of how to add the borax & acid. Just have to see if the boric acid is a different process or any cheaper. If minimal savings I will just go the borax route as I can grab locally.

    Am I reading stuff right....If I go the boric acid route for borates, I just add boric acid and no muratic acid?
    18x37 Vinyl Grecian (24k gals) 8' Inter fab(la mesa) Diving board w/ waterfall & Led, Pentair Laminars & Intellibrite 5g

    Star Rite System 3 Cartridge Filter, IntelliPro 3HP Variable Spd Pump, Max E Therm 400k BTU,
    Pentair Easy Touch 8 & actuators,...Now looking to BBB

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •