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Thread: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemicals OK

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    Green water continues, new filter installed and chemicals OK

    Hello All,

    Over the past three months Iíve been working with a local pool supply store and collectively weíve aggressively been trying to fix my green water problem. The manager of the store has been very helpful, yet the green water Ė algae problem continues. The pool is about 9000 to 10,000 gallons. Iíve spent about $300.00 is chemicals to balance the chemical issues and repeated testing at the local store shows the chemicals are in the water. The problem though seems to be that chlorine is quickly evaporating. One evening I poured 6 gallons of chlorine and 12 hours later I took a sample of water to the store and the results shows very little chlorine. Whenever I take a sample thereís little to no chlorine. Dumping more chlorine is not fixing this problem, it keeps burning off. The stabilizer is within normal limits. I had an old outdated filter so I replaced the filter with a Hayward 17502. The pump is a Flotech 1.5 HP. Hayward tech support said itís more filter than I need but will work since Iím seeing a reading of 2 PSI.

    When the pool was clear about 9 months ago, I swam to the bottom drain and noticed there was no suction; therefore, only the skimmer on the side of the pool is functioning. I donít know how to clear the bottom drain.

    Thanks in advance for assistance.
    Jim
    Gallons = 10,000, In Ground plaster
    Filter = Hayward 17502
    Pump Flotech 1.5 HP, one speed (GPM unknown)
    Build date unknown, house built early 70ís, so sometime thereafter

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    SkyKid's Avatar
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    Jimmi328
    Can you post a picture of your setup
    I'm a newbie here and had a green pool
    With the help of the people here my pool is almost ready to swim in
    Someone more knowledgeable than me will be by to help you
    Just do as they say and you'll soon have a clear pool again
    I know i listened and learned a lot
    14600gal, In-Ground Fiberglass, Haywood s244t Sand Filter, Jandy Apure35 SWG,
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    Never been Pool Stored Thanks to TFP

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    We need to see a full set of test results to help diagnose the problem ... also realize we do not think very highly of pool store testing. If you would have found us first and bought one of the recommended test kits, I can almost guarantee you would have spent less than $300 and had a clear pool.

    What is your stabilizer (CYA) level? That determines how protected the chlorine (FC) is from the sun and how high you need to maintain the FC to kill the algae by following the shock PROCESS.

    I suggest you read through Pool School (button at the upper right) a few time to learn about the chemistry and definitely order one of the recommended test kits and trust your own testing. I would recommend the TF-100 with the XL options since you are trying to clear up algae. The Speedstir also helps a lot.

    Here are a few things to focus on in Pool School:
    Defeating Algae
    Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis
    Shocking Your Pool

    Also, floor drains are designed to not "feel" like they are flowing. It could be functional, there may be a diverted closing it off, or it could be plugged. Does not really matter at this point as many pools do not have floor drains anyway.

    Please add your pool details and location as described HERE as it will help us help you.
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmi328
    Hello All,

    Over the past three months Iíve been working with a local pool supply store and collectively weíve aggressively been trying to fix my green water problem. The manager of the store has been very helpful, yet the green water Ė algae problem continues. The pool is about 9000 to 10,000 gallons. Iíve spent about $300.00 is chemicals to balance the chemical issues and repeated testing at the local store shows the chemicals are in the water. The problem though seems to be that chlorine is quickly evaporating. One evening I poured 6 gallons of chlorine and 12 hours later I took a sample of water to the store and the results shows very little chlorine. Whenever I take a sample thereís little to no chlorine. Dumping more chlorine is not fixing this problem, it keeps burning off. The stabilizer is within normal limits. I had an old outdated filter so I replaced the filter with a Hayward 17502. The pump is a Flotech 1.5 HP. Hayward tech support said itís more filter than I need but will work since Iím seeing a reading of 2 PSI.

    When the pool was clear about 9 months ago, I swam to the bottom drain and noticed there was no suction; therefore, only the skimmer on the side of the pool is functioning. I donít know how to clear the bottom drain.

    Thanks in advance for assistance.
    Jim
    Welcome

    And now for the bad news.

    You're being Pool-stored. The chlorine is not evaporating - it's being consumed by sunlight or being used up killing algae. It needs to be constantly replenished, and the only way to know how much to add is to test it yourself at regular, brief, intervals. The $300 you've spent could have easily paid for a proper test kit and enough bleach to clear the swamp with enough left over to pay for the drinks at your first pool party.

    To save myself a lot of typing: pool-school/

    Some inspiration:
    my-pool-experience-with-algae-t58756.html
    a-little-encouragement-for-those-with-algae-and-new-to-bbb-t57137.html
    testimony-this-is-why-you-should-do-bbb-t58451.html
    first-time-shocking-with-bleach-t45074.html
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    I do have a test kit; Leslieís 81.330. Iíll check out the ones suggested on this site and make a purchase. Iíll post the results, do the Pool School and try to figure something out.

    FC = 0.5 to 1
    TC = 1.5 to 3
    CC = 1 to 2
    pH = 7.4
    Total Alkalinity = 90 ppm
    Calcium Hardness: Unsure but I think itís crazy high, the solution was supposed to turn from red to blue but never did after 50 drops of the R-0012 solution
    Cyanuric Acid = 8 ppm
    Gallons = 10,000, In Ground plaster
    Filter = Hayward 17502
    Pump Flotech 1.5 HP, one speed (GPM unknown)
    Build date unknown, house built early 70ís, so sometime thereafter

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    I do not find any kit with that number anywhere, can you check that?

    Not sure how you got a CYA reading of 8ppm? Most tests do not go that low and are not the accurate.

    With the green water and high CC value, you need to go through the shock process, but without a good CYA number, it is impossible to know what FC level you should be targeting. I will say it is definitely higher than 5ppm which is likely the limit of your test, which is why you need the FAS-DPD chlorine test in the recommended test kits. Depending on the actual kit you have and how old it is, you may be able to just add the FAS-DPD test.
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    He has this test kit. Which is the Taylor K-2005. It does not have the FAS-DPD chlorine test.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    Oh, well then you just need this to have the equivalent to the K-2006:
    http://tftestkits.net/FAS-DPD-Chlorine- ... t-p47.html

    Check that CYA number and let us know if it should have said 80ppm.
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmi328
    I do have a test kit; Leslieís 81.330. Iíll check out the ones suggested on this site and make a purchase. Iíll post the results, do the Pool School and try to figure something out.

    FC = 0.5 to 1
    TC = 1.5 to 3
    CC = 1 to 2
    pH = 7.4
    Total Alkalinity = 90 ppm
    Calcium Hardness: Unsure but I think itís crazy high, the solution was supposed to turn from red to blue but never did after 50 drops of the R-0012 solution
    Cyanuric Acid = 8 ppm
    Pool stores that do this to people should be prosecuted.

    Your CYA can't be 8ppm, because you could never test for it and the view tube isn't calibrated in increments that small. Like another said, maybe it's supposed to say 80ppm??? The CYA test is difficult to interpret even for experienced users.

    You need to get your chlorine to shock level, and then go test it again HOURLY and add more until it quits dropping between tests. Then stretch it out to every 4 hours, then 8 hours as it holds. My pool was black last Friday morning, and I can see the drain 8.5 feet down now, and I've added nothing but bleach and CYA. Maybe $30 worth. I started on Friday because I was off work and knew I could stay after it. My pool used over 20ppm of chlorine between 8:30am and noon, and then another 20ppm between noon and 11pm, but it was only dropping about 2ppm in 4 hours by the time I went to bed. I went to 8 hour testing Saturday and was done shocking by the time I went to work Monday morning. It is a simple and foolproof process.

    You need an accurate CYA number before you proceed. Then go check out the Chlorine CYA Chart to determine your shock level, then read the following articles Defeating Algae

    Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis

    Your pool will be all but clear in less than a week easily if you follow the instructions.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Oh, well then you just need this to have the equivalent to the K-2006:
    http://tftestkits.net/FAS-DPD-Chlorine- ... t-p47.html
    This is overkill since he already has the K-2006, which already comes with a calibrated tube and R-0003 reagent. I upgraded my K-2006 to be able to perform FAS-DPD simply by purchasing the R-0870 DPD powder and R-0871 FAS-DPD titration reagent, which I found for about $10 total at my local pool supply store.
    Matt
    9k gallon, plaster, IG. Raised spa w/ spillover into pool. AO Smith Century Centurion / Purex Triton WisperFlo 0.5 HP, Hayward 1.5 HP (spa), Polaris 1-516-01 1.5 HP (blower). Hayward DE3620 36 ft2 72 GPM DE Filter, Polaris 145 cleaner. Pool built ~1980.
    Trouble-free, BBB since: April 25, 2013

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by thehowheels
    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Oh, well then you just need this to have the equivalent to the K-2006:
    http://tftestkits.net/FAS-DPD-Chlorine- ... t-p47.html
    This is overkill since he already has the K-2006, which already comes with a calibrated tube and R-0003 reagent. I upgraded my K-2006 to be able to perform FAS-DPD simply by purchasing the R-0870 DPD powder and R-0871 FAS-DPD titration reagent, which I found for about $10 total at my local pool supply store.
    To be clear, he has the K-2005 ... and so did you and upgraded to the K-2006 equivalent.

    True, he does not need the cylinder, but having extra never hurt either. In fact, the TF-100 recommends using a different cylinder for the FAS-DPD test exclusively. Also, it is also not typical to be able to find the 870 and 871 in "normal" pool stores ... some of the commercial ones likely have it, but it can be frustrating sending someone around town looking for it when 95% of the pool store employees will not have any idea what they are talking about.
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    Well, Leslie's certainly doesn't carry the DPD chems!

    For what it's worth, those reagents are also on Amazon for a fair price.

    10oz powder: $9.21 shipped
    2oz titrating reagent: $9.38 shipped

    Or from TFT:
    http://tftestkits.net/R-0870-DPD-Powder ... 6-p43.html
    http://tftestkits.net/R-0871-2-0z-Reage ... t-p53.html

    A great way to get a secondary cylinder is to buy the Taylor speedstir! What a deal!
    Matt
    9k gallon, plaster, IG. Raised spa w/ spillover into pool. AO Smith Century Centurion / Purex Triton WisperFlo 0.5 HP, Hayward 1.5 HP (spa), Polaris 1-516-01 1.5 HP (blower). Hayward DE3620 36 ft2 72 GPM DE Filter, Polaris 145 cleaner. Pool built ~1980.
    Trouble-free, BBB since: April 25, 2013

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by thehowheels
    A great way to get a secondary cylinder is to buy the Taylor speedstir! What a deal!
    True
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    Thank you all for your input and help. Iíll be ordering the Taylor K-2006 today; Amazon seems to have the best price.

    Does the CYA test check the chlorine stabilizer in the water? When I did this test, I mixed the reagent in the dispensing tube as instructed and transferred to the comparator tube until the black dot on the bottom vanished. The water solution came up to 4.5; perhaps this is 45 PPM? I also have cheap Pool Time test strips (which are probable useless) that are free with the shock treatment and it showed 50 PPM of stabilizer. This is all have to go by for now till my test kit arrives. This morning my CC level showed 0.5 to 1. I can only assume itís being used up by sunlight and killing algae. I think I have to continue to shock the water and clean the filter on a daily basis and pray I see improvement.
    Gallons = 10,000, In Ground plaster
    Filter = Hayward 17502
    Pump Flotech 1.5 HP, one speed (GPM unknown)
    Build date unknown, house built early 70ís, so sometime thereafter

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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    Yes the CYA test is for stabilizer. Yesterday you had low chlorine, today you have low chlorine. Have you read

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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmi328
    Thank you all for your input and help. Iíll be ordering the Taylor K-2006 today; Amazon seems to have the best price.
    You don't need the whole kit! You'll just end up with doubles of everything. All you need to turn the K-2005 you own into the K-2006 you need is the FAS-DPD test. Save some $$, only buy what you need!

    Does the CYA test check the chlorine stabilizer in the water? When I did this test, I mixed the reagent in the dispensing tube as instructed and transferred to the comparator tube until the black dot on the bottom vanished. The water solution came up to 4.5; perhaps this is 45 PPM? I also have cheap Pool Time test strips (which are probable useless) that are free with the shock treatment and it showed 50 PPM of stabilizer. This is all have to go by for now till my test kit arrives. This morning my CC level showed 0.5 to 1. I can only assume itís being used up by sunlight and killing algae. I think I have to continue to shock the water and clean the filter on a daily basis and pray I see improvement.
    I'd like to see that comparator tube to be sure, but it does sound like CYA is 45. A little high for the shock process, but do-able.
    .
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmi328
    I think I have to continue to shock the water and clean the filter on a daily basis and pray I see improvement.
    Daily won't do it.

    Hourly isn't too often at first, but always at least several times a day. Every time your chlorine gets back down near zero it's like starting over from scratch.
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    As I wait for my FAS-DPD test to arrive, I continue to monitor and treat my pool with chlorine and shock treatment as my work schedule allows me. The FC still remains at 0.5 to 1 ppm. However, the pool water appears to be clearing, that is, a light green rather than the blackish green I used to have; still canít see the bottom though. About every other day to daily Iím adding a jug of liquid chlorine and shocking with Calcium Hypochorite (73%).

    I noticed that in the mornings just before sunrise, bubbles or foam appears on the surface as high as 12 inches in some areas. As the sun shines down, this foam/bubbles dissipate. Just curious to know what this is about.

    P.S. Iíll upload pictures when I create a Flickr account
    Gallons = 10,000, In Ground plaster
    Filter = Hayward 17502
    Pump Flotech 1.5 HP, one speed (GPM unknown)
    Build date unknown, house built early 70ís, so sometime thereafter

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    Have you used any algaecide?
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    Re: Green water continues, new filter installed and chemical

    Yes, Iíve used ďGreen To CleanĒ 4 weeks ago and ďPool Time Algaecide PlusĒ about 1 week ago.

    I received my R-0870 powder and R-0871 reagent a couple of days ago and used it a few times as I continue to attack this green water problem. As said earlier, Iíve seen improvement but not the bottom of the pool.

    My FC has been hovering around 1.6 to 2.4 over the past couple of days. This morning I hit it again with Calcium Hypochlorite and a jug of chlorine and a few hours later my FC is 12 ppm, so, I may have enough chlorine for now? Hereís my pool current chemistry:

    FC = 12
    CC = 0.2
    pH = 7.2
    TA = 80
    CYA = 30

    I notice small clumps of algae on the surface and this tells me the algae is being eliminated and hopefully being trapped in the filter.

    The manager at my local pool store (whoís been so helpful) stated with all Iíve done I should see blue water by now.

    I suspect my bottom drain is not suctioning. When I swiftly brush the deep end in one direction, in about 5 seconds, I see dark green water coming to the surface and then being pulled by the skimmer. Obviously there is dead algae sediment on the bottom. Okay; so I hook up the vacuum to the skimmer and vacuum the bottom. Within 45 to 60 seconds I see a dark green color (dead algae of course) being emitted from the return pipe to the pool. Okay; I ask myself, ďWhy didnít my new expensive Hayward C-17502 filter catch thisĒ. Iíve checked the cartridge every 3 days and clean it although it does not really need cleaning. The gauge reads about 5 PSI. The plumbing is so elementary; high side of filter is on pump side and low side is emitted to pool. I called Hayward tech support; ďcheck for tears or rips in the cartridgeĒ. The cartridge appears fine to my eyes. They did offer to ship a new cartridge if need be but over $100 a pop, I donít feel ethical accepting if this is not the problem.

    Is there a way to clear the bottom drain without draining out the water?
    Gallons = 10,000, In Ground plaster
    Filter = Hayward 17502
    Pump Flotech 1.5 HP, one speed (GPM unknown)
    Build date unknown, house built early 70ís, so sometime thereafter

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