New Pool Owner-Pump Run Time?

[blbncsu]

New pool owner with a pump runtime question. The pool was just filled and pumps started last Friday the 3rd. I was told to run the pumps 24/7 for a while and its now been almost a week and I want to put the pumps onto a schedule and not kill my electric bill.

I could use some ideas on how much and for when the pump should be running:
Info would be:
11,500 gal vinyl with SWG
1hp Hayward Tri-star 2 speed pump
Hayward S244T sand filter and it runs showing a steady 20psi

The pump/filter are about 5 feet below the pool surface water level and 20' from the pool. Have 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. The water thus far looks fairly good but is a bit more cloudy than I'd like. Water analysis showed pretty good upon startup. Added salt to 3200ppm, increased alkalinity a bit, and just added stabilizer yesterday.
Any input would be helpful. Thanks.

 

[Richard320]

pool-school/pump_run_time explains pump time.

Cloudy water is almost always an algae bloom waiting to happen or just finishing up being killed off. Do you have a test kit? Can you post some test results? "Pretty good" is not a very useful set of test results.

There's a good chance you're suffering more from a chemical imbalance than insufficient filtering.

 

[blbncsu]

You mean "pretty good" isn't enough :lol:

I am deciding on if/what test kit to purchase from the recommendations here. Read Pool school and everything here many times and still learning.
Here is the water analysis I had done 6 hrs after the pool was started having only added salt at that point:
TC: 1.9
FC: 0.4
pH: 7.6
TA: 34
CH: 66
CYA: 0
Copper: 0.1
Iron : 0.0
Borate: 0.0

Since then added 5lbs alkalinity up and 4lbs (I believe it was) of Stabilizer. Salt at 3200ppm. Recently had about 1.75" rain Monday. Backwashed and supercholrinated using the SWG for 24hrs afterwards.
"Cloudy" is a relative term. I can easily see the 6' bottom but it isn't "sparkling". Thanks!

 

[Richard320]

You mean "pretty good" isn't enough :lol:

I am deciding on if/what test kit to purchase from the recommendations here. Read Pool school and everything here many times and still learning.
Here is the water analysis I had done 6 hrs after the pool was started having only added salt at that point:
TC: 1.9
FC: 0.4
pH: 7.6
TA: 34
CH: 66
CYA: 0
Copper: 0.1
Iron : 0.0
Borate: 0.0

Since then added 5lbs alkalinity up and 4lbs (I believe it was) of Stabilizer. Salt at 3200ppm. Recently had about 1.75" rain Monday. Backwashed and supercholrinated using the SWG for 24hrs afterwards.
"Cloudy" is a relative term. I can easily see the 6' bottom but it isn't "sparkling". Thanks!

There's your problem. If you typed things correctly, that means Combined Chloramines are 1.5!!!!

Get some stabilizer in there or that SWG will never be able to keep up with just the sunlight losses. And I'd manually add some bleach to get FC up to shock level and try to burn off that high CC and the cloudiness.

 

[blbncsu]

Thanks! I guess I need to read more about Combined Chloramines and what that means.

I was told to not at stabilizer until the pool was clear, clean, blue! I decided to go ahead add that last night anyways.

Can I kick back on the super-chlorinate on the SWG now or do I also need to add some bleach? If so how much bleach?
Granted those test results were right after pool start-up and having filled with city tap water.

In terms of pump run times I've read the info here. I've also read info that says have 1 or 2 or 3 turnovers to set your pump runtime. Trying to strike a balance and back-off the 24 hr high speed run time I've been doing the past 5 days and determine a more reasonable run time. Many Thanks!

 

[Richard320]

Thanks! I guess I need to read more about Combined Chloramines and what that means.

I was told to not at stabilizer until the pool was clear, clean, blue! I decided to go ahead add that last night anyways.

Can I kick back on the super-chlorinate on the SWG now or do I also need to add some bleach? If so how much bleach?
Granted those test results were right after pool start-up and having filled with city tap water.

In terms of pump run times I've read the info here. I've also read info that says have 1 or 2 or 3 turnovers to set your pump runtime. Trying to strike a balance and back-off the 24 hr high speed run time I've been doing the past 5 days and determine a more reasonable run time. Many Thanks!

First question: How much CYA did you add? That's critical to set the target FC level for the shock process. It will not show up on the test right away, so use the pool calculator to figure out what the llevel should be based on how much you added and assume it's there.

The SWG will not be able to raise FC fast enough for the shock process. It might be able to keep up with the demand once you raise it to shock level with liquid bleach. The only way to know is by testing.

The filter should be running 24/7 during the shock process. Low speed should be sufficient. All you're trying to do is keep the chlorine mixed.

When the water is clear and you show .5 CC or less, then you will be ready to try the overnight chlorine loss test. You will need to turn off the SWG for that.

http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/shocking_your_pool

 

[blbncsu]

Thanks!
I added 4lbs granulated stabilizer. Pool calculator then says my CYA is 42 and recommends a shock level of 10. Which amounts to 191oz of 6% bleach or 13oz of trichlor?
Do I need to also add more CYA to bring that up further too? Either before or after the shock process? Much to learn but I enjoy it!

On another original note. Is there a standard or recommended time to run pumps assuming the water is in good shape? I've read anywhere from 6 hrs a day up to 12 or 18hrs. Also when do you run high speed versus low speed? I know it all depends on your individual condition but is there a starting point or general rule of thumb to work from?

 

[Richard320]

Thanks!
I added 4lbs granulated stabilizer. Pool calculator then says my CYA is 42 and recommends a shock level of 10. Which amounts to 191oz of 6% bleach or 13oz of trichlor?
Do I need to also add more CYA to bring that up further too? Either before or after the shock process? Much to learn but I enjoy it!

Don't add the Trichlor! It adds more CYA and you don't need to worry about overdoing it right from the get-go. 42 is slightly high for the shock process but do-able.

On another original note. Is there a standard or recommended time to run pumps assuming the water is in good shape? I've read anywhere from 6 hrs a day up to 12 or 18hrs. Also when do you run high speed versus low speed? I know it all depends on your individual condition but is there a starting point or general rule of thumb to work from?

That's all experimentation. I was able to calculate my flow by measuring the spa and timing how long it took to pull it down 4 inches and crunched the numbers to come up with a starting point that would yield one complete turnover per day. You will probably need a little bit of high speed to get enough movement to push surface debris to the skimmer. pool-school/pump_run_time

 

[blbncsu]

Many thanks for your help.
Then I may add ~1.5lb of 65% cal-hypo then per the pool calculator to get to a FC of 10?
From what I can tell adding cal-hypo with a high pH will also raise my pH level maybe? Would I then need to correct that after the shock process?

If a normal CYA level is 70-80 then how can you shock a normal pool if you say 42 is pushing it on the high side? Maybe I missed something in my reading?

 

[Richard320]

Many thanks for your help.
Then I may add ~1.5lb of 65% cal-hypo then per the pool calculator to get to a FC of 10?
From what I can tell adding cal-hypo with a high pH will also raise my pH level maybe? Would I then need to correct that after the shock process?

If a normal CYA level is 70-80 then how can you shock a normal pool if you say 42 is pushing it on the high side? Maybe I missed something in my reading?

Compare the shock level for 40 CYA and 70 CYA then figure out how many extra gallons of bleach that will require. It is considerable.

CYA works as a sunscreen for bleach. If you want to get a little color without getting burnt to a crisp when you go to the beach, you don't plaster yourself with 100SPF sunscreen, do you? You'd look like Caspar the Friendly Ghost! No, you want some of the sun to get through. Same with CYA. You want some sun protection, but not so much that the FC is all bound up and stabilized and unavailable to kill algae.

Almost all of the green pool tales here begin with astronomical CYA levels, which then require heroic measures to overcome.

Pool Calculator has a feature near the bottom that shows Effects of Adding Chemicals. It will show you what raises and what lowers with each common chemical. Be sure you enter your pool size way up at the top. I'd go easy on Cal-hypo until you have your own reliable test results.

 

[linen]

Just to add, by keeping your cya at 42, it is typically easier to complete the shocking process (less chlorine). Once you have passed all three criteria simultaneously in the shocking the pool poolschool article, then raising your cya up to 70-80 ppm makes sense.

You are going to need an appropriate test kit. The TF-100 has the most bang for buck.

 

[blbncsu]

Thanks guys.
Before I began any shocking or chemicals I wanted to get a new water anaylsis (still waiting to get a kit and order one soon). Fortunately the pool builder/store is 5min away. Here are the latest results I got from last night:
TC: 2.7
FC: 2.4
pH: 7.4
TA: 51
CH: 59
CYA: 43
Salt: 3100
Also was given some water "clearer" and added 2oz of that to the pool. Put the pool back into super chlorinate mode again to raise up the FC some.
I said it was cloudy previously but that depends on definition of cloudy? I can see the deep end bottom with no problem, shallow end looks fine to me, just don't have a feel for if it should be crystal clear. Thanks!

 

[linen]

Hey blbncsu, you are going to have to decide who's advice you are going to follow.

Following both the pool store advice and the methods taught on here is a recipe for disaster (we have seen that many times on here). For example, we would not recommend a clarifier at this point, though that is what you put in on the pool stores advice.

Let us know which way you want to go.

p.s. With the methods taught on here are properly followed, the result should always be crystal clear water all the way to the bottom.

 

[blbncsu]

A very fair point :-D

As a new pool owner like anything else I try to take all information presented and evaluate it and make the best decisions possible and present all data given. I have no reason to not trust or follow advice here nor do I have a reason to not trust the company that installed my pool and is a local family owned highly respectable 30 year company.

Its a bit like buying your new expensive car and going to an auto forum and hearing you can increase mileage, performance, better ride, fix this issue if you do XYZ things that may or may not affect warranty, reliability, costs, wear, safety, etc...

Trying to absorb all the info I've gotten and do the best possible. This site has been very valuable and helpful so I'm sure I'll be here learning as I go with the great help from all here.