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Thread: Bonding/electrical questions

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    Bonding/electrical questions

    I am doing our vinyl lined steel frame inground pool build except for the excavation work.
    I have some specific electrical hardware questions.
    One luminary (500w), one pump (220v/20A), about 120' (70' in house, 50' to service pad) total from house service panel.
    We are under IRC code, live on a farm, do our own wiring etc.
    1) for the #8 solid copper bonding wire, is this insulated or not?
    2) can the bonding wire be attached to the steel pool frame with a crimped copper lug through the pool frame bolts or is there another attachment method?
    3) Is the luminary and pump on seperate runs from the house service panel?
    4) from the house service panel to the disconnect box at the pump, continuous UF-B#10 3 wire with ground or NM-B #10 through house to an exterior wall mount LB box, to THHN cable in conduit to disconnect box/subpanel at pump?
    5) Can I use GFCI breakers at either the house service panel or a subpanel at the pump?

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Burbank, IL
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    109
    Bare copper bonding wire was specified when I did mine. Also, I believe it was 6 gauge wire.
    Wilbar 12 x 17 Buttress Free AG (~4400 Gal?)
    Hayward 225 sq ft cartridge filter
    1/2 HP Pentair Whisperflo
    Liquidator chlorine feeder
    Pool Rover Jr.
    BBB - it's the way to go

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    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    SF Bay Area
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    441
    carlnpa,

    Here is a link for a very good rundown on the National Electrical Code (NEC) Section 680. Section 680 is the part of the NEC dealing with swimming pools, spas, hot tubs, fountains and similar installaitons. The first 15 pages of the 31 page pdf should be ignored (well, not ignored, but it doesn't deal with swimming pools) and the information on Section 680 beings on page 16. http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/Pooldownload.pdf

    What is "IRC code"?

    1) for the #8 solid copper bonding wire, is this insulated or not?
    This is usually bare.

    2) can the bonding wire be attached to the steel pool frame with a crimped copper lug through the pool frame bolts or is there another attachment method?
    I'm not completely sure about this one, but my 1983 vintage pool has the #8 bonding wire connected to copper pool pipe with pipe clamps. Other parts of the #8 bonding wire are attached via "split-bolt" connections. I THINK a crimped coper lug attached to pool frame bolts is satisfactory, but a real electrician from TFP should comment on this. I'm just an electrical engineer and sometimes I'm not completely up to speed on installation details such as this.

    3) Is the luminary and pump on seperate runs from the house service panel?
    You can do it this way, but I would recommend running at least #10 size conductors from your main panel and installing a subpanel specifically for your pool. Then you would have one 240 volt circuit breaker for your pump and a GFI 120 Volt breaker for your lights. Intermatic makes combo timer enclosures/breaker sub-panels in both mechanical and digital versions.

    4) from the house service panel to the disconnect box at the pump, continuous UF-B#10 3 wire with ground or NM-B #10 through house to an exterior wall mount LB box, to THHN cable in conduit to disconnect box/subpanel at pump?
    I'm not quite sure of your layout or intentions with this question. Either method should be OK to use. I am assuming the UF cable would be direct buried? You would regret trying to install UF cable in conduit.


    5) Can I use GFCI breakers at either the house service panel or a subpanel at the pump?
    You could install breakers at the house service panel, but per my reply 3 above, I would prefer installing a subpanel and putting your GFI breakers in that.

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

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    Quote:
    2) can the bonding wire be attached to the steel pool frame with a crimped copper lug through the pool frame bolts or is there another attachment method?

    I'm not completely sure about this one, but my 1983 vintage pool has the #8 bonding wire connected to copper pool pipe with pipe clamps. Other parts of the #8 bonding wire are attached via "split-bolt" connections. I THINK a crimped coper lug attached to pool frame bolts is satisfactory, but a real electrician from TFP should comment on this. I'm just an electrical engineer and sometimes I'm not completely up to speed on installation details such as this.
    I changed my mind on your question #2. On further reflection (and consultation with a real electrician), the crimped copper lug will not work very well with the solid #8 wire. Crimped connections are usually designed for stranded wire. I think your bonding wire should be attached to your steel pool frame with what is shown in the picture below.




    http://www.inyopools.com/Products/00100028009200.htm

    Titanium
    24,000 gallon inground freeform pool/spa circa 1983 (113 ft perimeter, 625 sq ft) with 350 gallon attached spill-over spa
    2007 2 HP, three-phase Hayward TriStar pump which is powered by an Ikeric VS-200 variable speed drive system
    1983 Laars XE Pool/Spa Heater Type ES 400,000 BTU, 1998 Hayward Super Star-Clear C-4000 cartridge filter (400 sq ft, 4 separate cartridges)
    1998 Polaris 380 pressure-side cleaner w/ 3/4 HP booster pump
    One skimmer :( and one PoolSkim :), One Supervision Galaxy LED pool lamp, Second story solar panels
    Hayward/GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 (replaced 1983 vintage dual circuit Intermatic timer)

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Powhatan VA
    Posts
    50
    Yep, that's what I used too, with #6 wire because Lowe's didn't have #8 bare. I originally attached them to the aluminum walls with zinc-plated nuts and bolts, but the inspector had me replace them with brass. I also sprayed them all with some undercoat I had in the garage.
    20x40 IG Vinyl
    33k Gallons
    Triton TR-100 Sand Filter
    Pentair WFDS-6

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    444
    Titanium is correct, with a solid wire you will need to use a mechanical lug and not a crimp lug.
    27' Round AG, 17,200 gallons, sand filter

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