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Thread: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

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    Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    Hello,

    I'm a brand new pool owner:

    15.5x34 In ground/Vinyl
    19700 Gal.
    SWG
    Hayward

    To date I have added 17lbs of PH -.........First 10 lbs. were WalMart brand and did nothing. Additional 7lbs was Poolife and dropped PH fast, but is now back up. I understand my TA is high as well, but I am frustrated and wondering how long it will take to get PH/TA in range.

    I appreciated any help!

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    We need to see your numbers... can you post a full set of results? When you say 17lbs of PH, do you mean PH Down? We recommend Muratic Acid. It can take time to lower the TA and stabilize the PH, especially if its really high. Your SWG is a source of aeration, that combined with high TA causes PH rise. So if you will kindly post your numbers we can help you out.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    Thanks for the quick response!

    Yes, pH down it was.

    #'s-

    FC-9.04
    TC-9.04
    PH-8.3
    TA-129
    CH-37
    CA-17

    Can you also reccomendd a brand of muriatic acid?

    Thanks!

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    is the CA Cyanuric Acid/Stabilizer/CYA? 17 is too low, you need it to be 60-80.
    Your Ph needs to be lowered to 7.2 everytime the it rises to 7.8. Use Muratic Acid. Eventually the TA will drop down into range and the PH will stabilize. The Brand doesn't matter. You can get it at any home improvement store like Home Depot or Menards/lowes/Ace.

    You really need your own test kit. I promise it will be worth the investment.
    Read these articles:
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...ater_generator
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...kit_comparison
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    Once you get the PH and CYA in the recommended range you will be able to turn down the output on your cell, FC of 9 is a bit high right now... how does your water look?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    Honestly my water looks great.

    Only running chlorine 35% with pump running 23 hours.

    Should I cut back on pump run time?

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    yes. drastically. Actually you only need to run it about 12 hours, if that. We recommend cutting back, an hour at a time, until you find the optimal run time, output setting. Usually its 8-12 hours pump run time with the output varying depending on too many factors like sun exposure, bather load etc. The pump run time really only needs one entire turn over of water per day - but your cell output varies - every pool is unique in that respect. By running your pump and cell less, you will also see less ph drift.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    Thanks for all your help! I'm sure you will hear from me again!

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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    Can you please tell me how much muriatic acid to add at one time and the best way to put it into the pool? I've heard different opinions on this.

    Thanks

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    Welcome to tfp, schreff2002

    In your case, where your ph is reading very high, it may take quite a lot of MA. Start by using the poolcalculator.com to calculate enough to lower your pool to 7.8 or so. Then pour that amount of MA slowly in front of the pool return. Let the pool circulate for an hour then test ph again. Use poolcalculator again to calculate the amount needed to drop to 7.8 and redose and repeat the 1 hour wait. When you are done you want your ph to be between 7.5-7.8. See:http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...ater_generator
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    Thanks.............I'm a bit confused by the pool calculator. There are several options in the Muriatic Acid dropdown. Can you offer input on which to choose?

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    What do you have Muriatic acid? Most of us use 31.45% MA (which is also labeled 20 baume) as that is generally the most cost effective.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    Yes, I will be getting Muriatic acid now. Thanks for clarifying! So the Pool Calculator is pretty accurate? I know there are other variables, but want to make sure I'm in the ballpark.

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    harleysilo's Avatar
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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    Yes if you pool volumne is accurate I've found it to be very accurate. Be careful with the MA, when I add it during the summer I make sure I'm ready to jump in the pool if I splash any on me. Some people who have gotten used to approximating the dose lower the jug into the water and then pour it, this is fool proof, except you don't know exactly how much you are adding. But you can get pretty close.
    18'x43' Sport Pool
    19,000 Gallons Vinyl Liner 3'-3.5'-4'
    SWCG and D.E. Filter
    Test Kits - Pool Calculator - Chlorine/CYA Chart - Pool School

    Secret Weapon for Pool Chemistry Testing

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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    Do you mean its safer that way?

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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    As I have a similar problem, I figure I might throw a question in here. I am in the process of shocking, but at times when I have let the FC drop to 4 or so, I have tested the PH and consistently find it to be high (8.0 or above). I then calculate the volume of MA to add, add it, and later test again when the FC is down around 4 or so (generally a few days later). Problem is, I've repeated this several times, and EVERY time it measures at 8.

    Seems, at least according to suggestions here, that I should check PH repeatedly every hour or so and continue to add MA until it drops to 7.5. Is that correct?

    Thus far, I've added Walmart solid PH reducer, and recently have been using some MA that I bought at Lowes (about a gallon jug of the 31.45 stuff). Just looking for advice, as I can't seem to get my PH down either.

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    harleysilo's Avatar
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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    Quote Originally Posted by schreff2002
    Do you mean its safer that way?
    I just meant you are less likely to spill/splash any on yourself. I don't wear protective eye gear or gloves so i now place the jug in the water and tip it to pour right at the pool surface.
    18'x43' Sport Pool
    19,000 Gallons Vinyl Liner 3'-3.5'-4'
    SWCG and D.E. Filter
    Test Kits - Pool Calculator - Chlorine/CYA Chart - Pool School

    Secret Weapon for Pool Chemistry Testing

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    Quote Originally Posted by mvbighead
    As I have a similar problem, I figure I might throw a question in here. I am in the process of shocking, but at times when I have let the FC drop to 4 or so, I have tested the PH and consistently find it to be high (8.0 or above). I then calculate the volume of MA to add, add it, and later test again when the FC is down around 4 or so (generally a few days later). Problem is, I've repeated this several times, and EVERY time it measures at 8.

    Seems, at least according to suggestions here, that I should check PH repeatedly every hour or so and continue to add MA until it drops to 7.5. Is that correct?

    Thus far, I've added Walmart solid PH reducer, and recently have been using some MA that I bought at Lowes (about a gallon jug of the 31.45 stuff). Just looking for advice, as I can't seem to get my PH down either.
    Yes whenever you are adjusting a number, like lowering PH, you add the recommended chemical, and then repeat the test in an hour or so to ensure you reached your target. If you didn't, you re-calculate and redose until you do.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    gtemkin's Avatar
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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    Quote Originally Posted by harleysilo
    Quote Originally Posted by schreff2002
    Do you mean its safer that way?
    I just meant you are less likely to spill/splash any on yourself. I don't wear protective eye gear or gloves so i now place the jug in the water and tip it to pour right at the pool surface.
    I think it's important to tell new users of muriatic acid about potential dangers. The statement above seems to state that an alternative to using protective eyewear and gloves is to place the jug in the water. I know that wasn't the intent of the poster but some follow on cautions are really needed. The only thing the jug immersion does is minimize splashing, however I believe it introduces a worse safety concern.

    The procedure for acid additions is to always add acid to water, never water into acid. If water is accidentally added to acid, an aggressive "boil" can occur that can spray acid out the mouth of the bottle and into a person's eyes or on their skin, instantly damaging them. You may not get a second chance with that type of accident.

    If you are going to dip a jug of acid into the water it is very important to make sure you DON'T dip it in so water has any chance of entering the mouth of the jug. The intent is to bring the jug's mouth close to the water's surface to minimize splashing, but not into the water's surface. I'd also face the mouth of the jug away from you and make sure no one else is standing around the pool.
    21K gal 16' x 40' in-ground pool built 1959, old school with Jacuzzi bronze pump, American Products 24" Sand Filter & Americana Multiport valve, Jandy Lite2 millivolt heater, Coverstar cover, and classic Kreepy Krauly.

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    harleysilo's Avatar
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    Re: Can't get PH/TA level to stay down

    Quote Originally Posted by gtemkin
    Quote Originally Posted by harleysilo
    Quote Originally Posted by schreff2002
    Do you mean its safer that way?
    I just meant you are less likely to spill/splash any on yourself. I don't wear protective eye gear or gloves so i now place the jug in the water and tip it to pour right at the pool surface.
    I think it's important to tell new users of muriatic acid about potential dangers. The statement above seems to state that an alternative to using protective eyewear and gloves is to place the jug in the water. I know that wasn't the intent of the poster but some follow on cautions are really needed. The only thing the jug immersion does is minimize splashing, however I believe it introduces a worse safety concern.

    The procedure for acid additions is to always add acid to water, never water into acid. If water is accidentally added to acid, an aggressive "boil" can occur that can spray acid out the mouth of the bottle and into a person's eyes or on their skin, instantly damaging them. You may not get a second chance with that type of accident.

    If you are going to dip a jug of acid into the water it is very important to make sure you DON'T dip it in so water has any chance of entering the mouth of the jug. The intent is to bring the jug's mouth close to the water's surface to minimize splashing, but not into the water's surface. I'd also face the mouth of the jug away from you and make sure no one else is standing around the pool.

    Thanks for the warning! I haven't poured it close enough to risk water rushing back into the jug but I was not aware of this specific danger. I want to keep my eyes around for a good long time. A video of this occurring would go along way towards education....and would make an excellent sticky warning.
    18'x43' Sport Pool
    19,000 Gallons Vinyl Liner 3'-3.5'-4'
    SWCG and D.E. Filter
    Test Kits - Pool Calculator - Chlorine/CYA Chart - Pool School

    Secret Weapon for Pool Chemistry Testing

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