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Thread: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

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    New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    I just bought a new 2-speed motor (A.O.Smith Century SP1610Z2MC) to replace my old single speed motor. I also bought a Intermatic P1353ME timer to replace the current manual on/off switch. I already had a Goldline Controls Aqua-Rite Chlorine Generator that is wired to receive power whenever the pump switch is on. My power is 240v. I have no other things like a booster pump, heater, spa, etc. I have a few questions about how to properly connect the motor, timer and chlorine generator together.

    1. The motor has three terminals labeled "1", "2", and "3 or 4". The label plate show line 1 connected to terminal 1, then for high speed line 2 to terminal 2, and for low speed line 2 to terminal 3/4. Separate from diagram of the 3 terminals, it shows a green to GRD. I haven't disconnected my old motor yet because I'm currently running it to get the pool cleaned up, but at the other end of the conduit coming from the motor is one green wire connected to the switch ground connection and two black wires connected to the load side of the switch. There is also an external bare copper wire connected to a grounding lug on the outside of the motor, that I believe is part of the pool bonding, or is this the "green to ground" shown on the motor plate? (This bare copper wire is connected to the chlorine generator housing.) So how do I connect the 3 wires inside the conduit to both the motor and the timer? Should the green connect to the motor 1 terminal and the two black to motor 2 and 3/4? Then at the timer, the black from motor 2 goes to timer 4 (high speed) and the black from motor 3/4 goes to timer 6 (low speed), but where do I connect the green coming from the motor?

    2. People weren't kidding about the poor instructions for wiring the P1353ME timer in reviews I read. It has 8 terminals, 1 & 2 are for "Timer Power", the other three pairs are for line and load for the 3 controlled circuits. So, my incoming power has three leads, but there are only 2 terminals for "timer power". Where do I connect the third power line lead?

    3. I will be using Mode 2 of the timer, so circuit #1 will be high speed, circuit #2 will be low speed, and circuit #3 is for an aux that I don't have a need for, unless the chlorinator could be connected there. Do I need to jumper from one of the "timer power" leads (1 or 2?) to the other circuit line terminals (3, 5, and 7)? The timer instructions are silent on this, and the schematics are confusing.

    4. Right now, the chlorinator power is connected to the load side of the manual on/off switch. I want the chlorinator to work with either high or low pump speed. The power line from the switch to the chlorinator has three leads, one of which is bare copper. Where should those be connected if I wanted to run it off timer circuit 3? Alternately, could it just be connected to the incoming power supply so that it is powered at all times? It has it's own off switch, and only generates chlorine when it senses flow anyway. (Maybe this is a bad idea in case the flow switch fails closed?) Aside from using circuit #3 or keeping it always powered, is there a way to connect the chlorinator so that it has power whenever EITHER high or low speed is running? That would avoid the need to separately program timer #3 and coordinate it with the high and low speed schedules. This would be my preferred option...where would the 3 chlorinator leads connect in the timer for this?

    I'm sure many people have made the exact connections I'm trying to do, so maybe there's already a clear schematic out there that would help me? I need to have the wiring all figured out before disconnecting the old motor to minimize down time while trying to clean up the pool. Bad timing I know...I should have done this over the winter.

    Thanks in advance for any answers to the above!
    Jim
    33,000 gallon, IG vinyl, Hayward Super Pump, 1.5 Hp single speed, sand filter, salt system, built 2002

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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    To add to question 1. above, I remember reading somewhere that, if upgrading a single speed to a 2-speed motor, I'd have to run a fourth wire through the conduit to the new motor. The new motor only has three terminals, so where would the 4th wire go at each end? I haven't been able to find again where I read that now. And I still haven't figured out where the existing green third wire from the motor goes in the timer. Two blacks to timer 4 and 6, where's the green from the motor go, and now, what about this 4th wire? I'm sure this is really simple, but I'm just missing a few key points of understanding in electrical wiring. I'm only a mechanical engineer.
    33,000 gallon, IG vinyl, Hayward Super Pump, 1.5 Hp single speed, sand filter, salt system, built 2002

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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    You will have 1 hot (110v) to the common terminal (1) and the other hot will either go to (2) for high speed or (3or4) for low speed typically. If there is no 3 position 2speed toggle switch on the motor you can interrupt the wiring in your own switch box or timer yourself. The green (equipment ground) should be the 4th wire hooked up inside the motor from your electrical panel/ box and the solid #6 or #8 bare would be your pool bond which goes to the external ground lug on the motor housing....
    Hope that helps...

    24,000 Gallon Vinyl Grecian IG,Triton2 Sand Filter / Pentair Super Flo 1 HP Dual Speed Pump ,
    Stenner Peristaltic Pump Injection w/15 gal drum,Stubbed up supply/return for future solar panels :)
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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    I made a schematic of what loose ends I will have after removing the existing on/off switch, and hopefully have successfully linked to it below. For each loose end I'm not sure where to connect, I labeled "a" through "g". I'm hoping this will make it easy for someone to help me connect the dots. About the only thing I could figure out for sure is that the motor terminal 2 and 3/4 connect to timer terminals 4 and 6, respectively. I also know I have to add jumpers to timer 3 and 5, but have seen conflicting info on whether those jumpers connect to 1 or 2 (i.e., are 1/3/5 or 2/3/5 jumpered?). The schematic does not include a 4th wire in addition to the other 3 in the existing conduit coming from my single speed motor that I asked about in my second post above. So if that is needed, where do I connect each end of that?

    Here's my attempt at adding a photo. Please correct me if I did it wrong: http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/jimho ... e.jpg.html
    33,000 gallon, IG vinyl, Hayward Super Pump, 1.5 Hp single speed, sand filter, salt system, built 2002

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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    Hey Jim, Sorry didnt realize the timer in the loop..thats what I get for reading to many posts.Anyhow, here is a picture from the manual I just seen on the net, you will in fact need a 3rd wire going to the pump.





    Hope that helps,
    Steve
    24,000 Gallon Vinyl Grecian IG,Triton2 Sand Filter / Pentair Super Flo 1 HP Dual Speed Pump ,
    Stenner Peristaltic Pump Injection w/15 gal drum,Stubbed up supply/return for future solar panels :)
    TF100 Rocks !! Pool School....

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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    Here's my attempt at adding a photo. Please correct me if I did it wrong: http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/jimho ... e.jpg.html
    Couldnt see the pic ? Here is the low down for you as pictured above.

    1.Pic one hot leg (one of your power leads at the timer) And and wire it to Timer input 1 as well as send the same hot to the motor and wire it to the common lug 1
    2.The remaining hot leg goes to terminal 2 to finish powering up your timer (verify the dip switch in the back is set to 220v as it should be the default from the factory, says in the manual).then put a jumper wire from 2 to 3 and 3 to 5 to power up your switch legs for circuits 1 & 2 .
    3.From terminals 4 and 6 is your other 2 wires going to your motor, one wired to HI and the other to lo speed.
    4.There should be a ground wire in your power supply source at your timer which should be grounded to your timer enclosure (if its metal) and then going to the green screw as well in the motor.
    5.The heavy gauge bond wire thats bonded to your SWG and pool should also be bonded to the external motor lug to bond that as well..
    24,000 Gallon Vinyl Grecian IG,Triton2 Sand Filter / Pentair Super Flo 1 HP Dual Speed Pump ,
    Stenner Peristaltic Pump Injection w/15 gal drum,Stubbed up supply/return for future solar panels :)
    TF100 Rocks !! Pool School....

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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    Steve, that helped immensely! I since found a 4th terminal in the motor where the green connects to the frame--not realizing that was a major point of confusion--I was thinking it must have to connect to the 1, 2, or 3/4 terminals.

    Now, does the green from the motor, the bare copper from the chlorinator, and the bare copper from the incoming power from the breaker (g, f, and c in the schematic that I linked) all get connected together inside the timer box, but not connected to any timer terminal (i.e., just all three twisted together with a wire nut)? Note that I have a plastic timer box that doesn't need to be grounded. If so, then my only remaining question is how to wire the two hots to the chlorinator. Would connecting them to timer 1 and 2 do that if it is acceptable to keep it powered at all times (need to check the chlorinator manual to see if that's OK)? If it can't stay powered on at all times, is there a way to give it power when EITHER high or low speed is on without connecting to the #3 AUX circuit and thus needing to coordinated scheduled on/off times?

    PS...how do you have a picture show up in the post rather than just a link to photobucket?
    33,000 gallon, IG vinyl, Hayward Super Pump, 1.5 Hp single speed, sand filter, salt system, built 2002

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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    The green(ground) wire at your timer can just be wire nutted to the green going to the motor (green screw inside) the bond wire to your SWG is most likely one way or another connected to your house panel ground and/or ground rod, so essentially the bond wire is already the same as the green ground wire on the supply side of your timer.So no need to connect them again, just bond the motor lug to the SWG external bond wire and you will be good.

    Not to familiar with the SWG's configuration because I inject liquid chlorine, but I would imagine that you can in fact power the SWG up with either the low or hi speed output of your timer as well ? But again , not familiar with SWG's operation at all.Or you can use the 3 ckt output as well I would imagine.Just keep in mind if your SWG is 220v as well you would send 1 leg (the common)directly to the SWG and the other would be sent off of 4 or 6 when that specific speed is active.

    As far as pictures, there is a thread here (somewhere) that explains it in detail...Basically I use google+ for all photos and I just right click right on a photo and "Copy URL" then while posting in the full editor mode you select the (IMG)link at the top and it inserts 2 (img)(img) in your text area , the you paste the copied link of your photo inbetween both like this...(img)paste here(img) then hit preview post and verify it worked befor submitting
    24,000 Gallon Vinyl Grecian IG,Triton2 Sand Filter / Pentair Super Flo 1 HP Dual Speed Pump ,
    Stenner Peristaltic Pump Injection w/15 gal drum,Stubbed up supply/return for future solar panels :)
    TF100 Rocks !! Pool School....

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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    The bare copper wire is probably a bonding wire, in which case it needs to be connected with a listed bonding connector, typically a split nut, rather than a wire nut. Bonding gets connected to the bonding lug on everything metal that touches the water or comes within 3' horizontally of the waters edge. Bonding does not get connected to ground or to a ground rod (except that things that are bonded are often also grounded so it tends to be connected anyway, but you should not intentionally connect it.) It is also possible that the bare copper wires are ground wires, as bonding does not normally go in a conduit, and in most cases should not be in a conduit with anything else.

    It is safer to have the SWG only powered up when the pump is running. Generally the pump will be used on low speed most of the time, so I would wire the SWG to low speed.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    Just found this in the Aqua-Rite Chlorine Generator manual: "Wire the Aqua Rite to the LOAD SIDE of the filter pump timer. It is very important that the Aqua Rite is powered only when the pump is running." I expect this is to avoid the possibility that the flow sensor or control system fails in a way that could energize the generator cell without the pump running...and bad things happening.

    I suppose connecting the SWG to circuit #3 could cause the same problem if I mis-program it to where #3 gets energized at a time when neither the high or low is on, so that's not advisable considering the above quote.

    I would like to have the flexibility to generate chlorine whenever the pump is running regardless of which speed--not have to choose between high-only or low-only. Is this possible?
    33,000 gallon, IG vinyl, Hayward Super Pump, 1.5 Hp single speed, sand filter, salt system, built 2002

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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    Jason, to clarify, when I mentioned the "bare copper wire" from the SWG and breaker, I was referring to the third grounding wire inside the Romex wires. As opposed to the exposed bonding wire that is connected to the external lugs on the motor at the same place the pool bonding wire connects, and to the SWG metal housing.

    Also, you're probably right to connect the SWG to the low speed. After all, the main reason I'm installing a 2-speed motor is to save money by running at low speed most of the time. I was just thinking that for initial spring clean up, or after an algae bloom, it would be good to have the SWG working for the potentially several days I would run on high speed to clear the pool. I suppose I can just supplement with bleach during those times.

    So just to make sure I'm clear on how to do that, the two hots to the SWG should connect to timer terminals 1 and 6? And it doesn't matter which goes to which?
    33,000 gallon, IG vinyl, Hayward Super Pump, 1.5 Hp single speed, sand filter, salt system, built 2002

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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    That would be correct Jim, so long as terminal 1 is also the common going to your pump motor and the terminal 6 is the other hot leg and low speed to your pump
    And yes the bare copper wire in the Romex at the timer is your equipment ground which you can wire nut to the green ground wire going in the conduit with your motor leads and terminate on the green ground screw in the motor, the solid bare wire is your bond that goes to a bonding lug on the outside of the motor casing....
    24,000 Gallon Vinyl Grecian IG,Triton2 Sand Filter / Pentair Super Flo 1 HP Dual Speed Pump ,
    Stenner Peristaltic Pump Injection w/15 gal drum,Stubbed up supply/return for future solar panels :)
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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    Great! I think that's the last piece of the puzzle and I believe I understand everything I have to do. I've updated my schematic accordingly, and will start on it tomorrow after work.

    Thanks for all the assistance in walking a mechanical guy through to an electrical understanding!
    33,000 gallon, IG vinyl, Hayward Super Pump, 1.5 Hp single speed, sand filter, salt system, built 2002

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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    Success! Got the new motor installed, pump seals replaced, timer and chlorine generator properly connected. I can't believe how quiet this pump is on low speed.

    One thing that surprised me though...the normal filter pressure is around 14 psi, but on low speed it's only 1 psi. Does this sound right? I was expecting it to be about half of the high speed pressure.
    33,000 gallon, IG vinyl, Hayward Super Pump, 1.5 Hp single speed, sand filter, salt system, built 2002

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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    Does this sound right?
    Yes. Most two speeds seem to operate at psi's down around there on low....very little resistance as the water flows slowly through the filter.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    Thanks for the reassurance Dave!
    33,000 gallon, IG vinyl, Hayward Super Pump, 1.5 Hp single speed, sand filter, salt system, built 2002

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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    Good to here everything worked out for you Jim, I will be opening mine for the season shortly as well with a new equipment pad, new 2 speed super flo pump and completely replumbed hope all my little upgrades work out as well....

    24,000 Gallon Vinyl Grecian IG,Triton2 Sand Filter / Pentair Super Flo 1 HP Dual Speed Pump ,
    Stenner Peristaltic Pump Injection w/15 gal drum,Stubbed up supply/return for future solar panels :)
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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    I've been reading the manual on this timer - can the AUX leg be used as 120 if the input is 240 by just hooking to Neutral instead of the 2nd hot leg? Am I over simplifying?
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    Don't see why it wouldn't be a problem, should just be a set of N/O dry contacts that are closing based on the programing....not sure why you would have 220V with a neutral supplying the timer and just sending out 110V out as the load?? Would just need to be careful if your sharing the neutral for 2 desperate 110v loads and splitting the 220v supply with 1 neutral and splitting it into 2 110v loads..... Other then that I can't see an issue.. ..

    24,000 Gallon Vinyl Grecian IG,Triton2 Sand Filter / Pentair Super Flo 1 HP Dual Speed Pump ,
    Stenner Peristaltic Pump Injection w/15 gal drum,Stubbed up supply/return for future solar panels :)
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    Re: New 2-speed motor and electronic timer installation help

    Just figured out the problem part of my proposed equation - only one leg of the breaker would be lit up. If there was a failure the breaker wouldn't trip. Waaaaay bad mojo.
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
    One cannot follow Islam and Christianity at the same time, nor can one follow pool store methods and TFP at the same time.
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