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Thread: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

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    2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    Hi... Long time lurker here, first time posting. I have a pool, spa with sunshelf being built in Orlando, FL. I'm trying to finalize the plumbing and would love some comments on the setup. Please note; this not to scale or for position. I drew this up for for water flow only.

    We're using a Jandy rs8 automation setup but the number of actuators hasn't been finalized. Based on this layout, I'm thinking 4 actuators (v3, v4, v5 & v8). Right now the heater only heats the spa with the pool heating only with the spill over running. I plan on adding solar next season, so I'll need at least one actuator for that addition.

    Thoughts?
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    ~12,000g IG pool w/ Spa and sun shelf, Jandy rs8 automation, Jandy CL340 filter, 2 Jandy Stealth pumps, Aquapure SWG, Ultrapure Ozone and Aquacal heat pump...

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    Your current setup will work. However, it is far more common to put the heater on the pool side of the system. Doing so would require several changes, including a second set of drains in the spa, but it gives you the option to heat the pool if you want to at some point, ie future flexibility.

    Normally the SWG is installed after the taps for water features. The aeration from the water features will cause you to lose some of your chlorine, so it is slightly more efficient to not add chlorine to the water going to the features.

    I would change the sequence of splits coming out of the filter. Generally the first choice is pool vs. spa. Then the next valve out is normal pool returns vs all water features. After that the water features split off from the water feature line. Right now you have the current bubbler and future bubblers coming from very different places in the system.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    JasonLion... thanks for the response. Sadly the shell is already in place and the plumbing is already installed at the pool. What I originally thought was a 2nd/separate drain in the spa was actually linked together. Wish I caught that before since it seems my two pumps can only work with each of the 2 drains. This also annoys me since the build knew that I wanted 2 pumps.

    I did see this diagram for 2 pumps/1 heater but it looks overly complicated.

    http://www.poolcenter.com/images/jandy_ ... am_pg8.jpg

    Plus the more I think about it, I don't think I'd want to pay to heat the pool year round in Central Florida. I'd rather just heat the hot tub and let the future addition of solar balance out the pool water temperature. I'll make some adjustments to the water feature order and repost.
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    ~12,000g IG pool w/ Spa and sun shelf, Jandy rs8 automation, Jandy CL340 filter, 2 Jandy Stealth pumps, Aquapure SWG, Ultrapure Ozone and Aquacal heat pump...

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    This is the configuration that is normally used and the one I would recommend:



    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    mas985... That's what I was hoping for but I only have 1 spa drain. As best as I can tell, I need 2 separate drains in that configuration.
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    ~12,000g IG pool w/ Spa and sun shelf, Jandy rs8 automation, Jandy CL340 filter, 2 Jandy Stealth pumps, Aquapure SWG, Ultrapure Ozone and Aquacal heat pump...

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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    Here's an updated layout with the following changes:

    Move the SWG so it only affects the pool/spa returns and not features.
    Grouped all of the features to one leg of the system (problems with enough water flow?)
    Added future solar panel setup to heat pool and spa overflow to naturally heat pool as long a possible.
    Specified location of pool drain connection.
    Specified location of ionizer and installation type (standpipe method vs retrofit drain plug pump method)
    Indicated location of actuators (using 4/6 with jandy rs8).

    Thoughts?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    ----

    ~12,000g IG pool w/ Spa and sun shelf, Jandy rs8 automation, Jandy CL340 filter, 2 Jandy Stealth pumps, Aquapure SWG, Ultrapure Ozone and Aquacal heat pump...

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    Quote Originally Posted by thewired1
    mas985... That's what I was hoping for but I only have 1 spa drain. As best as I can tell, I need 2 separate drains in that configuration.
    You could share the spa drain into the two pumps (via a 3-way valve for one pump). Also, you will probably want to have the ability to both filter and chlorinate the spa when it is being used. Chlorine is used up very quickly in a hot spa so it needs to be added. The way you have it now, the only way to chlorinate is in spill over mode and that is not very useful if you have already heated up the spa.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    I gotcha BUT if I had a 3 way valve at the spa drain I wouldn't be able to heat/chlorinate/filter at the same time as the jets. Correct? I could only do one or the other. Could both pumps be able to pull enough water from the same drain?

    I also think I would need two 3-way valves and 2 additional actuators. One to control where the spa drain was going and another to control pool vs. spa water to be heated and filtered.
    ----

    ~12,000g IG pool w/ Spa and sun shelf, Jandy rs8 automation, Jandy CL340 filter, 2 Jandy Stealth pumps, Aquapure SWG, Ultrapure Ozone and Aquacal heat pump...

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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    The three way valve I was talking about is in the Jandy picture which switches the suction between pool and spa. To share the suction with both pumps, the single suction line would be split with a tee into both pumps. What I meant was that one of the splits would need to go to the pool/spa valve, the other to the jet pump.

    Sharing the spa drain could be an issue and might cause both pumps to draw air or worse, cavitate. What size is the pipe from the spa? If it is big enough, it might not be an issue. But worse case you could alternate between them.

    Probably a better solution would be to ditch the jet pump and just share all the plumbing. The jets can tap off the line between the pump and filter so there are two paths back to the spa. This way you run the jets and heat/chlorinate at the same time. However, the jet valve would probably need an actuator so it can be tied in with the spa return valve actuator.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    I'll check the pipe size of the spa drain.

    Moving the entire setup to a single pump would mean that I could not run the water features while using the hot tub and the 2nd pump I have already purchased is wasted. I can run the 2nd pump for the water features since I don't have a separate drain in the pool for it.

    I REALLY wish the pool company installed enough drains to use the number pumps I instructed them to use. I feel my options are rather limited.
    ----

    ~12,000g IG pool w/ Spa and sun shelf, Jandy rs8 automation, Jandy CL340 filter, 2 Jandy Stealth pumps, Aquapure SWG, Ultrapure Ozone and Aquacal heat pump...

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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    The drain from the spa is 3". Mas985, do you think that is enough to share between 2 pumps at the same time? If so, this might be the solution I'm looking for.
    ----

    ~12,000g IG pool w/ Spa and sun shelf, Jandy rs8 automation, Jandy CL340 filter, 2 Jandy Stealth pumps, Aquapure SWG, Ultrapure Ozone and Aquacal heat pump...

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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    3" is pretty good size so it might be possible. A couple of other questions:

    What is the make/model# for each pump?

    Also, how many spa jets were you planning and what is the flow rate requirement for each jet?

    What is the distance between the spa and the pump(s)?

    What is the size of the jet return pipe and the spa return pipe?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    Solar should be after the filter, not before. You don't want any debris getting caught in the small channels in the solar panels.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    What is the make/model# for each pump?
    Both pumps are Jandy Stealth 2 speed pumps (model SHPM2.5)

    Also, how many spa jets were you planning and what is the flow rate requirement for each jet?
    4 spa jets (They are hayward type but I'm unsure of flow rate for each jet)

    What is the distance between the spa and the pump(s)?
    About 45" feet of pipe

    What is the size of the jet return pipe and the spa return pipe?
    Here are all of the pipe sizes:
    Jet return: 2.5"
    Spa return: 2"
    Spa drain: 3"

    Pool return: 2.5"
    Pool drain: 3"
    Skimmer: 2"
    Vac Line: 2"
    All water feature lines (3 unique total): 1.5"
    ----

    ~12,000g IG pool w/ Spa and sun shelf, Jandy rs8 automation, Jandy CL340 filter, 2 Jandy Stealth pumps, Aquapure SWG, Ultrapure Ozone and Aquacal heat pump...

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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    OK. Here's an updated layout. I've reconsidered the 2nd pumps purpose since. Using the 2nd pump for water features allows me to run them constantly and have the pool and or spa heated/filtered. My concerns are sharing the main pool drain to feed both pumps but I cannot think of a time when both pumps would need that drain. I'm also concerned about where actuators are needed. Do I need anything at the input sections of the pumps? My max supported are 6 with the Jandy rs8 but I don't want this REALLY complicated.
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    ----

    ~12,000g IG pool w/ Spa and sun shelf, Jandy rs8 automation, Jandy CL340 filter, 2 Jandy Stealth pumps, Aquapure SWG, Ultrapure Ozone and Aquacal heat pump...

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    Why not isolate the water feature pump on the main drain? This will prevent any debris from the skimmers clogging up the water features and it solves all sharing issues. Then you can have the other pump switch between the other three sources skimmer, vac and spa. That would be a much better solution IMHO.

    Also, I would put the SWG after the heater but before the last valve so you can chlorinate the spa too.

    Next, you should have a check valve between the solar valve and the filter to prevent draining backwards through the filter. Also, the solar return should have a check valve.

    Last, I hope you realize that both pumps are pretty big and will use a lot of energy (2500 watts) and hopefully you don't pay a lot for energy.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    That's a good idea. I'll update the layout when I get home and post an updated version.

    Regarding the pumps... I know they're quite big. To make a long story short, I purchased all of the equipment used and before the pool design was finalized. Too good of a deal to pass up honestly. If needed, I'll swap out the features pump for something smaller (1hp or so) afterwards.
    ----

    ~12,000g IG pool w/ Spa and sun shelf, Jandy rs8 automation, Jandy CL340 filter, 2 Jandy Stealth pumps, Aquapure SWG, Ultrapure Ozone and Aquacal heat pump...

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    You would be better off swapping the circulation pump motor for a two speed so at least you can run on low speed while filtering the pool. That alone would save a lot of money.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    Both are actually dual speed pumps (required in FL now). I could swap the impeller on the water feature pump to slow the water flow (iirc) but the power draw would be the same (iirc).
    ----

    ~12,000g IG pool w/ Spa and sun shelf, Jandy rs8 automation, Jandy CL340 filter, 2 Jandy Stealth pumps, Aquapure SWG, Ultrapure Ozone and Aquacal heat pump...

  20. Back To Top    #20
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: 2 pump plumbing diagram critique!

    When you downsize an impeller, the power draw by the motor decreases too. In fact, it decreases more than the flow rate decreases so the pump becomes more efficient.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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