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Thread: Water Ground?????

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    Water Ground?????

    Hi! We had a new 18 x 33 pool installed and had to have copper wire run all around it, being grounded near the pump per township regulations. Now they say we have to have some sort of clamp attached to a hose and put in the ground - referred to it as water ground. They assured me any pool store would know what I was talking about - well, they didn't. Anybody here know? It doesn't sound difficult, just want to get it down so we can get the inspection finished (and get them off my back). Thanks!!

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Water Ground?????

    The term you are needing is "Water Bond". Connecting it to ground is not appropriate. It needs to be connected to the copper wire around the pool. If you are in the US and your township requires it to be grounded, they are misreading the NEC.
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Water Ground?????

    There are several threads that have pictures of water bonding devices. If you're unsure about what they want I'd call the inspector and ask if it's a water bond that's required.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: Water Ground?????

    Thank you!!! I will question the inspector again.

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    Re: Water Ground?????

    Here is the pic of the water ground. . . .a wire attached to the skimmer. Apparently the wire all around the pool and the grounding of the electrical box/filter wasn't enough for an above-ground pool. Anyone heard of such idiocy?
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Vette's Avatar
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    Re: Water Ground?????

    Eww that is not how I'd want mine installed. I have a wire attached to a metal plate that sits in my skimmer, but that plate doesn't block my skimmer lid like that one. And that is required in an AGP, it keeps the water at the same potential as the ground.
    11,700 gallon 21' round 54" deep all-resin AGP - June 2012
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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Water Ground?????

    Why couldn't you keep it this way and then change it after they leave? That set up looks very odd and problematic when cleaning the skimmer out. I can just imaginge the scenerio... Here hunny, hold this while I maintain the pool! *Hunny looks like this screaming how much bull this is*

    Question for anyone who wants to answer... Why do some require bonding and others don't? My inspector said I don't have to bond a thing on my pool. Is that really and truly okay? I didn't have my other AGP bonded and never had a problem. THANK GOD! I was plugged into a GFCI outlet though.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

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    Charlie_R's Avatar
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    Re: Water Ground?????

    I agree with John T. The township is misreading the NEC. The wire all around your pool should be connected to all the metal of the framework, and there should be a bonding connection on your pump as well. The "water ground" as your township is calling it should be connected to this network.

    What this is intended to do is ensure that there are no potential (voltage) differences between any of the framework, equipment, and water.

    For more information, use your favorite search engine with the term "NEC pool water bonding". This may come in handy when you talk to the inspector.
    15'x48" 4500 gallon Intex pool, buried 1.5 ft. Pac-Fab Dynamo 3/4 hp pump. Hayward S180T sand filter, bought used. Taylor K-2006 test kit. Rocket mass heater based wood fired pool heater.

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    Re: Water Ground?????

    Be sure the device you use is marked UL approved. The pool store where I bought our pool from last year sold us a kit with a brass nipple stamped UL approved, the piping and installed it for $35 bucks.

    I also had to tie the copper wire to 4 points on the pool. 1 point to a stainless steel bolt where the pool wall ends meet.

    The other three contacts had to be attached to the wall supports... which are isolated at the top and bottom by plastic plates.

    21' AG (~11,000 gallons)
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    Vette's Avatar
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    Re: Water Ground?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey
    Why couldn't you keep it this way and then change it after they leave? That set up looks very odd and problematic when cleaning the skimmer out. I can just imaginge the scenerio... Here hunny, hold this while I maintain the pool! *Hunny looks like this screaming how much bull this is*

    Question for anyone who wants to answer... Why do some require bonding and others don't? My inspector said I don't have to bond a thing on my pool. Is that really and truly okay? I didn't have my other AGP bonded and never had a problem. THANK GOD! I was plugged into a GFCI outlet though.
    At the old house before this bonding stuff was added, we just had a stake put in the ground with a wire running to the pump connected to it. Now we have the whole deal, including the skimmer plate that doesn't let the basket sit all the way down
    11,700 gallon 21' round 54" deep all-resin AGP - June 2012
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Water Ground?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey
    Question for anyone who wants to answer... Why do some require bonding and others don't? My inspector said I don't have to bond a thing on my pool. Is that really and truly okay?
    a) As crazy as it sounds, some municipalities don't consider an aboveground pool a permanent pool and therefore bonding isn't required. Also some consider it to be non-conductive since it's vinyl lined.
    b) Okay is a relative term. There are thousands of them built and never bonded. If it were me, I'd bond it anyway.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Water Ground?????

    Thanks Bama.
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    TFP Guide

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    Re: Water Ground?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey
    Question for anyone who wants to answer... Why do some require bonding and others don't?
    A lot depends on the code cycle your municipality is on, or weather they even enforce the NEC
    Quote Originally Posted by Casey
    My inspector said I don't have to bond a thing on my pool. Is that really and truly okay? I didn't have my other AGP bonded and never had a problem. THANK GOD!
    It is real posible that they did not read the NEC code as it applies to above ground pools
    Quote Originally Posted by Casey
    I was plugged into a GFCI outlet though.
    won't do a thing for you if there are voltage gradients around the pool. The bonding grid, including the water bond, is designed to equalize the voltage potentials in the components that make up the pool, the water, and the ground (dirt) itself. Each one of these can be at a different voltage potential and you do not want to be the conductor between them
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Casey's Avatar
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    Re: Water Ground?????

    Lets say the pool is already installed... can it still be bonded?
    I'd bet you my bikini you'll never get TFP water from a pool store!

    24' Sharkline Venture De Filter

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Water Ground?????

    Sure it can. It may be a little harder to do, but probably not much harder.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    TFP Guide

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    Re: Water Ground?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey
    Lets say the pool is already installed... can it still be bonded?
    Above ground pools are usually done after installation as the pool needs to be up. Inground pools are a bit different as the bonding needs to go in the ground on a lot of the components as well as in the decking material if it is stone or concrete.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: Water Ground?????

    OK, had everything done as shown in picture, inspector came out . . . .said he can't slap sticker on cause we are using a 1 hp filter with regular plug as opposed to twist-lock plug (earlier post mentioned that our 1 1/2 hp filter stopped working so we got this one for a replacement). We have a post with two sides, different outlets on either side and BOTH sides have boxes that close over the outlets/plugs.

    We either need to get a filter or replace cord on this one for him to slap sticker on. Does this seem like he's trying to tweak us or not???????? Right now, I'm pretty disgusted. Thanks to all for all your help!!!

    Lyn

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Water Ground?????

    Per NEC 680.22, if your outlet is between 6 and 10 ft from the pool, then the cord must be 3ft (or less) and be a locking type. As I understand it, NEC doesn't specify plug type or cord length requirements for outlets powering pumps that are greater than 10 feet away. I would just do what your inspector wants...it is not really asking that much here.

    Quote Originally Posted by boysovsumr
    Right now, I'm pretty disgusted.
    I am not trying to rub salt in a wound here...but why are you disgusted? Following code is often required (and a good idea even if it isn't) for pools.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Water Ground?????

    Dumb question.... You replaced a failed pump that had a twistlock style plug attached. Why cant you simply swap the cords? This will put your equipment in compliance with regards to what the inspector is asking.
    24' x 54" Aqua Leader Influence Above Ground Pool
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    Re: Water Ground?????

    We are going to replace the cord to be in compliance. My disgust was that I was under the impression that the inspection was for the water bond and the locking boxes.

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