Trying to clean my new green pool
- Thread starter ayngrubb
- Start date
We drained about 1/3 of the water yesterday...down to about 18 inches in the shallow end. I was brushing a lot, trying to move the sediment down toward the drain.
We started refilling with two hoses and got the level almost as high as the bottom of the skimmer, but then it was after midnight and we had to go to bed, so we turned off the water and left it unfinished. It sat overnight, and when I checked chemicals this morning--with my hth 6-way, mind you--CL looked a little less orange, but still rather high. pH is still 7.5, but TA is up to 120. Biggest disappointment=CYA...still over 100. (100 is the highest my kit will measure, and I used the last of my CYA reagent on that test...so I'm really anxious to get my Big Girl test kit.). Shouldn't some of my readings change after draining so much water? Did we not drain enough? Will the readings be different after we're able to circulate the water again?
After work tonight, we will finish the refill. Should I add baking soda to adjust TA? Should we drain again? UGH!
My husband isn't doing any of this work, but I can see his skepticism starting to build. I think he wants to fill the thing in with dirt and be done with it.
Just kidding.
Sort of.
But I need to be able to show results.
We started refilling with two hoses and got the level almost as high as the bottom of the skimmer, but then it was after midnight and we had to go to bed, so we turned off the water and left it unfinished. It sat overnight, and when I checked chemicals this morning--with my hth 6-way, mind you--CL looked a little less orange, but still rather high. pH is still 7.5, but TA is up to 120. Biggest disappointment=CYA...still over 100. (100 is the highest my kit will measure, and I used the last of my CYA reagent on that test...so I'm really anxious to get my Big Girl test kit.). Shouldn't some of my readings change after draining so much water? Did we not drain enough? Will the readings be different after we're able to circulate the water again?
After work tonight, we will finish the refill. Should I add baking soda to adjust TA? Should we drain again? UGH!
My husband isn't doing any of this work, but I can see his skepticism starting to build. I think he wants to fill the thing in with dirt and be done with it.
Just kidding.
Sort of.
But I need to be able to show results.
Dave,
I understood that comment as related to my questions about the previous owners' CYA levels. I said that apparently their CYA was always over 100, so maybe that means that we shouldn't worry about it...?
And that poster said, don't assume that their water was what you want your water to be...just because they always had CYA over 100 doesn't mean that's okay. Does that make sense? It made sense to me.
Ayn
I understood that comment as related to my questions about the previous owners' CYA levels. I said that apparently their CYA was always over 100, so maybe that means that we shouldn't worry about it...?
And that poster said, don't assume that their water was what you want your water to be...just because they always had CYA over 100 doesn't mean that's okay. Does that make sense? It made sense to me.
Ayn
duraleigh said:
Maybe i should have elaborated. The OP wrote " I'm not sure what to do with high CYA since replacing half the water is not really an option right now...so I guess I was hoping that the previous owners' consistently high CYA readings would mean we might not have to worry about that right now."
I was responding to her doubt about getting CYA to a manageable level, pointing out that just because the previous owner had a CYA level>100 doesn't mean they didn't have water quality issues. I wouldn't just assume that the previous owner had a trouble free pool.....
From extended-test-kit-directions-t25081.html
"The precision of the test, when done correctly, is around plus or minus 15 for levels up to 90 and plus or minus 30 for levels between 100 and 200. Novices often have problems reading the test correctly, and tend to get higher than actual readings.
"
So you could have been 30 PPM off of the true level prior to the partial drain.
To the Mods : Can you dilute the CYA test sample and then double the results to get an accurate reading for very high CYA levels?
"The precision of the test, when done correctly, is around plus or minus 15 for levels up to 90 and plus or minus 30 for levels between 100 and 200. Novices often have problems reading the test correctly, and tend to get higher than actual readings.
"
So you could have been 30 PPM off of the true level prior to the partial drain.
To the Mods : Can you dilute the CYA test sample and then double the results to get an accurate reading for very high CYA levels?
Dilution works, although the test is less accurate. Mix half pool water and half tap water, then multiply the result by two.
Ayn, the tests are really only good up to 100. A result of 100 means that the CYA is AT LEAST 100. It could have been (and likely was) way over 100.
As for the skepticism, all I can say is, browse some of the Defeating Algae threads that have pictures. If you follow our advice, you will be successful. The clean up is some work, and it may take some time. In fact, now would be a good time to start stocking up on Pool Owner Patience, because you will need it. However, once your pool is clean, keeping it that way is mind numbingly simple.
Plus you've got lots of people on this board who want to help.
Ayn, the tests are really only good up to 100. A result of 100 means that the CYA is AT LEAST 100. It could have been (and likely was) way over 100.
As for the skepticism, all I can say is, browse some of the Defeating Algae threads that have pictures. If you follow our advice, you will be successful. The clean up is some work, and it may take some time. In fact, now would be a good time to start stocking up on Pool Owner Patience, because you will need it. However, once your pool is clean, keeping it that way is mind numbingly simple.
Plus you've got lots of people on this board who want to help.
Thanks for that link to more specific testing info! I've been doing several parts of the CYA test wrong: using cold (60 degrees) pool water, not warmed to room temp; holding the view tube very close to my face, not at waist level; paid no attention to how much light is present as I pour and view.
Also, the Taylor explanation of CYA helps me understand why this might be such a problem in our pool. Previous owners used pool guys exclusively, so their version of chlorine was always raising CYA...and nobody seemed to be doing anything about it.
If I had any CYA testing reagent left, I would try the dilution, but for now, I think I'll wait for my TF-100. I wish I had tracking info on it. It just keeps becoming clearer and clearer the importance of the right tests.
I appreciate all the help so far. I've learned SO much, and that makes me very happy...even though my problem isn't solved just yet. I love the amount of info and the number of very helpful people on this forum! This will help me with my Pool Owner Patience.
Ayn
Also, the Taylor explanation of CYA helps me understand why this might be such a problem in our pool. Previous owners used pool guys exclusively, so their version of chlorine was always raising CYA...and nobody seemed to be doing anything about it.
If I had any CYA testing reagent left, I would try the dilution, but for now, I think I'll wait for my TF-100. I wish I had tracking info on it. It just keeps becoming clearer and clearer the importance of the right tests.
I appreciate all the help so far. I've learned SO much, and that makes me very happy...even though my problem isn't solved just yet. I love the amount of info and the number of very helpful people on this forum! This will help me with my Pool Owner Patience.
Ayn
ayngrubb said:
And you picked up some scientific arguments to placate the Husband!
I don't know why it is so hard to learn everything involving the testing, but i can tell you if i read pool school again right now, of the extended directions, i would learn something i've forgotten. Really TFP needs to offer a spiral bound waterproof mini science book with all of pool school and everything else in it complete with color pictures etc. I'd pay .......maybe $15 for that.
Update:
Refill complete, and the water is now teal and clear in the shallow end. I can see to the bottom about halfway down the slope to the deep end. Skimming spring tree stuff off the surface of the water daily. Brushing the sides and bottom as much as I can, brushing dusty brown looking stuff toward the MD. Running filter 12 hours per day instead of 24/7 since we're not shocking. I have tracking info (thanks Dave S!) on my TF-100 test kit and anxiously await its arrival so I can begin to shock the pool for real. The deep end is still quite green.
Today's water results:
OTO Cl above 5, bright yellow, but no longer orange at all
pH 7.2
TA 120
CH test turned yellow instead of red with 5 drops of hardness indicator, so I didn't add the titrant...not sure what the yellow means
I'm all out of CYA reagent, so I can't do the CYA test.
Since part of the point of the refill was to lower the CYA, I can't wait to do this test--and do it correctly--and see if we achieved what we intended.
Am I doing the right things as I limp along toward the time when I receive my Big Girl Test Kit?
Brushing
Skimming
Running filter 12 hours
Cl not outrageously high, pH 7.2, TA 120
Should add more chemicals in the interim?
Should I run the filter longer?
Refill complete, and the water is now teal and clear in the shallow end. I can see to the bottom about halfway down the slope to the deep end. Skimming spring tree stuff off the surface of the water daily. Brushing the sides and bottom as much as I can, brushing dusty brown looking stuff toward the MD. Running filter 12 hours per day instead of 24/7 since we're not shocking. I have tracking info (thanks Dave S!) on my TF-100 test kit and anxiously await its arrival so I can begin to shock the pool for real. The deep end is still quite green.
Today's water results:
OTO Cl above 5, bright yellow, but no longer orange at all
pH 7.2
TA 120
CH test turned yellow instead of red with 5 drops of hardness indicator, so I didn't add the titrant...not sure what the yellow means
I'm all out of CYA reagent, so I can't do the CYA test.
Since part of the point of the refill was to lower the CYA, I can't wait to do this test--and do it correctly--and see if we achieved what we intended.
Am I doing the right things as I limp along toward the time when I receive my Big Girl Test Kit?
Brushing
Skimming
Running filter 12 hours
Cl not outrageously high, pH 7.2, TA 120
Should add more chemicals in the interim?
Should I run the filter longer?
High FC will make the TA test go from green>pink to blue>yellow. Or some shade thereof. It's the color change that matters, not the shade.
I wouldn't worry about your CH test and the color result at all right now. You have a vinyl pool - so it's not that big a deal - you can always test it later to know for sure what it is, in your situation probably only an issue if its super high. So clear your pool first and worry about CH later 
That's kind of what I was thinking. When I was able to test CH before, it was in a good range, so I'm not really worried about it...just thought I should get as many readings as I could now that the refill is finished.
Oh, and when I called my water clear, that was wishful thinking. I can see to the bottom in much of the pool, but the water is still cloudy...not clear. That was a mistake in my previous post. Sorry.
Oh, and when I called my water clear, that was wishful thinking. I can see to the bottom in much of the pool, but the water is still cloudy...not clear. That was a mistake in my previous post. Sorry.
Update and question:
One week after the drain and refill, and I have my TF-100, so I have some good numbers to share:
FC 6
CC 1
TA 100
pH 7.3
CYA still over 100
The water is teal, and I'm thinking I need to shock it to get rid of the last of the algae. Pool calculator tells me to add 9 gallons of bleach to bring the FC levels to 30, which is the suggested shock level.
Is there anything else I need to do before I start shocking? If this sounds correct to youse guys, I am ready with my 9 jugs of bleach.
One week after the drain and refill, and I have my TF-100, so I have some good numbers to share:
FC 6
CC 1
TA 100
pH 7.3
CYA still over 100
The water is teal, and I'm thinking I need to shock it to get rid of the last of the algae. Pool calculator tells me to add 9 gallons of bleach to bring the FC levels to 30, which is the suggested shock level.
Is there anything else I need to do before I start shocking? If this sounds correct to youse guys, I am ready with my 9 jugs of bleach.
You don't want to do another partial drain? Try to get that CYA lower? Ya with CC of 1 you still need to maintain shock. Would be easier at a lower CYA level...
We'd rather wait and see what the damage was to our water bill from last week's drain/refill before we do it again. We drained 1/3 of the water and saw no change in the CYA.
Meanwhile the water is still some shade of green, and I want the algae out of there. So I'm ready to dump bleach, brush constantly, backwash the filter, check CL levels throughout the day, and do the OFCLT.
The water was beautiful from the time we first saw the house in November until we moved in February 1 and for about six weeks after. I didn't have any water testing equipment back then, but if I had, I'm sure I would've seen high CYA. Also, if I had had any kind of testing equipment or pool knowledge back then, I would never have let the pool go green. If only I had started reading here right away!
Meanwhile the water is still some shade of green, and I want the algae out of there. So I'm ready to dump bleach, brush constantly, backwash the filter, check CL levels throughout the day, and do the OFCLT.
The water was beautiful from the time we first saw the house in November until we moved in February 1 and for about six weeks after. I didn't have any water testing equipment back then, but if I had, I'm sure I would've seen high CYA. Also, if I had had any kind of testing equipment or pool knowledge back then, I would never have let the pool go green. If only I had started reading here right away!
K well, do the CYA test with 1 part tap water 1 part pool water so that you can get an idea of how high over 100 it is. This way we can figure out your shock level.
Okay, after much more reading about CYA and some doubt about how this is ever going to work, we have finally come to see that CYA is the key problem with our water, that it is the one thing that's holding us back from accomplishing a trouble-free pool. If I understand this correctly:
•CYA is keeping the CL from working at lower levels.
•CYA never goes away. Replacement of water (through deliberate draining/refilling or splash out/evaporation) is the only way to reduce CYA levels.
•High CYA will require high doses of bleach to reach optimum CL levels...and greater amounts of testing chemicals, too!
Also, I think I have figured out that my earlier estimate of 24K gallons in my pool is high. It's a lazy L design, so it's a little tricky, but when we measured lengths and width and average depth, we were not able to estimate the effect of the deep end sides that slope in fairly drastically. (They slope in from each side, not just down from shallow to deep.) When I tried to shock last time, I added enough CL to move from 6 to a shock level of 30, but when I measured after 45 minutes, the level was 44. I used the pool calculator to sort of work backwards from a CL level of 44 and found that the amount of bleach I used would have raised a 17K gal pool from 6 to 44. So our pool must be 17K gallons. I'll change my signature.
Thank you for the note about mixing pool water with tap water! I hadn't known about that before, and when I did it last night, I finally--for the first time--had an actual reading for CYA! Even though I hated the number, I was thrilled to HAVE a number...and now I feel like we'll start accomplishing something.
Water readings last night:
FC 24
CC 0 (possible?)
pH 7.3
TA 110
CH 280
CYA 190
We drained just a little last night, brought the water level down to just above the light, just below the jets. We did not complete the refill, and it rained last night. We are planning to partial drain and refill as many times as it takes, and we were not expecting to get it all done at once...Pool Owner Patience.
Water readings this morning:
FC-24
CC-.5 (It's not much, but can CC increase without a decrease in FC?)
pH-7.3
TA-110
CH-280
CYA-160. (30-point drop after a pretty small refill. Does that sound right?)
We are in this for the long haul. Does it sound like we're on the right track? Any other advice?
•CYA is keeping the CL from working at lower levels.
•CYA never goes away. Replacement of water (through deliberate draining/refilling or splash out/evaporation) is the only way to reduce CYA levels.
•High CYA will require high doses of bleach to reach optimum CL levels...and greater amounts of testing chemicals, too!
Also, I think I have figured out that my earlier estimate of 24K gallons in my pool is high. It's a lazy L design, so it's a little tricky, but when we measured lengths and width and average depth, we were not able to estimate the effect of the deep end sides that slope in fairly drastically. (They slope in from each side, not just down from shallow to deep.) When I tried to shock last time, I added enough CL to move from 6 to a shock level of 30, but when I measured after 45 minutes, the level was 44. I used the pool calculator to sort of work backwards from a CL level of 44 and found that the amount of bleach I used would have raised a 17K gal pool from 6 to 44. So our pool must be 17K gallons. I'll change my signature.
Thank you for the note about mixing pool water with tap water! I hadn't known about that before, and when I did it last night, I finally--for the first time--had an actual reading for CYA! Even though I hated the number, I was thrilled to HAVE a number...and now I feel like we'll start accomplishing something.
Water readings last night:
FC 24
CC 0 (possible?)
pH 7.3
TA 110
CH 280
CYA 190
We drained just a little last night, brought the water level down to just above the light, just below the jets. We did not complete the refill, and it rained last night. We are planning to partial drain and refill as many times as it takes, and we were not expecting to get it all done at once...Pool Owner Patience.
Water readings this morning:
FC-24
CC-.5 (It's not much, but can CC increase without a decrease in FC?)
pH-7.3
TA-110
CH-280
CYA-160. (30-point drop after a pretty small refill. Does that sound right?)
We are in this for the long haul. Does it sound like we're on the right track? Any other advice?
Yes, headed the right way for sure. The variances in FC and CC are within the accuracy of the test. Don't overanalyze.ayngrubb said:
There is one thing you are wrong about, though: CYA doesn't go away with evaporation.
Okay. Just splash out and drain/refill, right?
Thanks.
I'll check in again when I have new info.
Thanks.
I'll check in again when I have new info.
Also do not adjust th your volume based on one dose and test as the strength of the bleach can vary. I recently came to believe that the 10% I got at Lowe's for the first time must currently be closer 12% based on the overshoots I have gotten. The Wal-Mart 8.25% had always seemed very consistent for me though.
You well get a better feel for trends as time goes by.
Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
You well get a better feel for trends as time goes by.
Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short