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Thread: Chlorine neutralizer??

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    Chlorine neutralizer??

    Can chlorine neutralizer have any negative effects on a swimming pool? Thanks for any help.
    John

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    "any negative effects", yes. But in practice it is reasonably harmless.

    There is hardly any reason to use a chlorine neutralizer in an outdoor pool. In almost all cases simply waiting till the chlorine level comes down on it's own is a better choice.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    I hope this is ok to post this question on this thread b/c it is about chlorine neutralizer. We finally got our pool chems balanced using bleach. We tested the chlorine weekly for a few months and determined we needed to add 1 jug of chlorine per week. We have an indoor pool. But after 1 month of not testing I finally decided to test it and the chlorine level is so high the pool store can't even test the chlorine b/c it is off the charts and the pH has sky rocketed as well. I've been adding acid to lower the pH, but the pool store said I needed to lower the chlorine first and that will help lower the pH. Yes, I know shame on us, we got lazy with the testing. But now how do I fix it? Should I use the neutralizer and if I do how do I figure out how much to use? Thank you.
    25x15 ft; 11,200 gal; indoor/in ground; plaster (redone 2006); cartridge filter; +40 years old original with the house;
    pool has a cover and we cover the pool half way b/c when it is covered all the way our numbers get screwed up;we don't use the pool very often; only indirect sunlight; Chicago area

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    What are your test results? Chlorine is only part of the equation, as you are realizing. Blindly adding chems is dangerous.

    If the store you get them tested in needs to, they can dilute your water with distilled water to get a better idea of what your free and total chlorine levels are.

    Example: 4 oz pool water + 4 oz. distilled Test for Total and Free Chlorine. If the results are good, multiply times 2 to get the actual. If the results are still bleached out, another 4 oz of distilled water and use a times 3 multiplier. Continue this until you get some usable results.

    The reading will not be precise. In fact the accuracy level will drop by each multiplier. If a test with undiluted yields an error factor of +/- 1%, diluting the original sample with two parts of distilled water will yield an error rate of about +/- 3% to 5%. You will still get a better idea of what you have than you have now.

    I agree that if it's possible, let the chlorine dissipate on its own. If your CYA levels are too high, you may need to dilute the pool. Running the pump and cracking a window or if you have a venting fan should help too, assuming the stabilizer is under 75 (which is still too high for an indoor pool, btw).

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    Well the pool store never told us the actual chlorine level. They did get rid of all the chlorine in the sample to test the pH and they said that was very high. But they said the chlorine was too high to measure. Do you think I can do all those dilutions/tests you listed above . . . seems awful complicated. Should I test the distilled water first to make sure there is no chlorine in it?
    Also, when you say cracking a window . . . I live in northern suburb of Chicago and it's about 30 degrees. Will making it colder get rid of the chlorine faster?
    I have not tested for CYA yet, but I'm sure it's high.

    Thanks,
    Cissy
    25x15 ft; 11,200 gal; indoor/in ground; plaster (redone 2006); cartridge filter; +40 years old original with the house;
    pool has a cover and we cover the pool half way b/c when it is covered all the way our numbers get screwed up;we don't use the pool very often; only indirect sunlight; Chicago area

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    Are you using the red-drops pH test? Don't rely on it when the FC is through the roof! That test becomes progressively less reliable as FC gets higher than 10ppm. You need to get the FC down first, before you can get a reliable pH value that way. (The red drops have an indicator called phenol red. Excessive chlorine will chemically convert this to chlorphenol red, which is also a pH indicator but for a much lower range--so the pH test will always appear to be super high, when it probably isn't.)

    Without knowing how the pool store got rid of the chlorine, it's hard to know whether what they did would throw off the pH test. For example, you can use thiosulfate to neutralize the chlorine, but if you use too much then the thiosulfate itself will change the pH of the sample, and the result is meaningless.

    Distilled water won't have any chlorine. If you dilute with tap water, that might have chlorine in it.
    --paulr
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    It would be a huge help if you had a FAS-DPD chlorine test. That test can measure high FC levels accurately, while none of the other tests can.

    Do you have an OTO chlorine test? In the OTO test you add drops of reagent to a sample that turns the sample various shades of yellow that are then compared to a color standard. If the OTO test turns orange or red, then you really do have an extremely high TC level, while if it just stays somewhere in the bright yellow range your TC level is probably below 10.

    Just how high the FC level can be and still be safe depends on the CYA level, so it is important to know your CYA level.

    Keep in mind that an indoor pool tends to have highly variable chlorine demand. With an outdoor pool you can get into a routine of simply adding the same amount of chlorine each day without testing each time, but an indoor pool doesn't work that way.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    When you test yourself, what are you testing with? Do you have a full kit? There's a Leslie's Pool in Palatine, off Dundee. You could call them and ask if they have an FAS-DPD test kit (the Taylor K-2006)...

    I wish I lived closer, I'd pop over this afternoon and test it for ya....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
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    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    Quote Originally Posted by ckf
    Do you think I can do all those dilutions/tests you listed above . . . seems awful complicated. Should I test the distilled water first to make sure there is no chlorine in it?
    Sure you can do the tests. I know it seems complicated at first but once you get the kit in your hands and actually see how to do it, you'll get the hang of it. Here's what one member wrote on how to do the dilution to get an estimate of your chlorine level.
    You can get an estimate of how high your chlorine is by diluting your sample with distilled water.
    Use a measure like a shot glass and mix 1 part pool water and 1 part distilled water, test and multiply your test results by 2 (so if your test indicated 5 ppm then it's really about 10 ppm).
    If that is still not high enough then mix 1 part pool water with 2 parts distilled water and multiply the results by 3.
    If you need to go higher it's 1 part pool water and 3 parts distilled water and multiply by 4.
    The highest I would try and go is 1 part pool water and 4 parts distilled water, multiply results by 5.
    Because each dilution reduces the accuracy of the test so the higher dilution tests are more of an estimate of your chlorine.
    Also, don't worry about testing the distilled water. It won't have any chlorine in it.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    I have to, occasionally, use the chlorine/bromine neutralizer in my 550 gal, covered, BBB-bromine spa. It is "Chlor Neutralizer" by Leslie's and is remarkably less expensive than many other chems. The container lists the amounts to use right on the container. It is fast and quite effective AND you want to measure the amounts you add very closely AND add a little at a time (amounts relative to your water in gals and reduction needed, CYA, etc.), letting water circulate a while between additions (as with generally most chems). My covered 550 gallon spa uses fractions of tsp and tbsps to bring high levels of bromine down considerably so I'll have this 3 lb container for the rest of my life probably.

    Sorry for the brief hijack here but it does go to show how close monitoring helps.

    BTW All interested......... I think I have found the reason for my wild, swings of Bromine levels and then control of pH that was especially hard to control when I switched to Bromine, from Cl, several months ago.

    I think my Ozonator is working intermittently.

    I have a lot of scientific background in different areas. I understand the basics. Okay, I'm no expert but after having our kind, very patient, members stick with you, sometimes explaining and explaining, and explaining it finally becomes much clearer. Experience and time goes a long way, too.

    I have no explanation for many of the intermittent swings when the spa is being very closely monitored. Day before yesterday I checked the Bromine levels and they are way above "shocking" level. Granted I have only used the spa once in past month but I've only added maintenance chlorine twice in past month, without bromine levels soaring after additions and one addition of MPS a few weeks ago after my one long soak. The floater has not had any pucks in it in weeks, nada, zilch!!!!!

    I think my Ozonator just recently decided to work properly. If it keeps up the swings I'm going to have to ditch it and get another.


    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR
    Are you using the red-drops pH test? Don't rely on it when the FC is through the roof! That test becomes progressively less reliable as FC gets higher than 10ppm. You need to get the FC down first, before you can get a reliable pH value that way. (The red drops have an indicator called phenol red. Excessive chlorine will chemically convert this to chlorphenol red, which is also a pH indicator but for a much lower range--so the pH test will always appear to be super high, when it probably isn't.)

    --paulr
    Oh no! So, I've been testing the pH regularly and trying to get that down first b/c the guy a the pool store said I needed to get that down first. I've already added 3 of those big gallons of muratic acid. I didn't know about the chlorphenol. You really need to be a chemist to own a pool.

    I have a smaller kit than the Taylor K-6000. But I purchased the CYA test and the FAS/DPD test separately. I was using the FAS/DPD test to test the chlorine and that is when I realized the FC was sooooo high. I must have added over 200 drops and it never turned pink - it never turned any color. That is when I freaked out and went to the pool store. I spoke to another pool company and they told me not to use the chlorine neutralizer b/c in a drop the FC could drop down to zero.

    I'm so confused.
    I think the best thing for me to do might be to just empty the pool and start over. What do you think?

    Everyone thank you for all the advice.
    Cissy
    25x15 ft; 11,200 gal; indoor/in ground; plaster (redone 2006); cartridge filter; +40 years old original with the house;
    pool has a cover and we cover the pool half way b/c when it is covered all the way our numbers get screwed up;we don't use the pool very often; only indirect sunlight; Chicago area

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    If you're using the FAS-DPD test you need to add the powder first and it will turn pink if there's any chlorine present. Then you add drops till it turns clear. If you add 2 scoops of powder and it doesn't turn pink you don't have any chlorine present.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Chlorine neutralizer??

    Well I'm starting from scratch. We emptied the pool today and are filling it up now. I did make a mistake in my previous posting I never was able to get it to turn pink with the powder - I know I heard that if we add 2 scoops of the FAS-DPD powder and it doesn't turn pink there is no chlorine but I also read that it could mean there is too much chlorine. Ahhhhh. I also took my water to the pool store and they said the chlorine is so high they couldn't measure it. At any rate I gave up testing the chlorine b/c it was way to high for the tests I could do.
    Anyway, now I'm in the process of reading up on how to start adding chemicals from the beginning. I want to make sure we do it right this time.
    First things first - I'm going to test the tap water that is going in now. I just got in the mail my new test kit - TF-100. Although I realized once I got it that I had previously purchased most of the kit separately. Oh, well, I'll just use the chemicals up.
    I'm very excited to be able to start over. You can't even understand how much stress this has caused me.
    thanks,
    Cissy
    25x15 ft; 11,200 gal; indoor/in ground; plaster (redone 2006); cartridge filter; +40 years old original with the house;
    pool has a cover and we cover the pool half way b/c when it is covered all the way our numbers get screwed up;we don't use the pool very often; only indirect sunlight; Chicago area

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