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Thread: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatment)

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    Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatment)

    I am not able to get my Chlorine to stay in the water after a Stain Removal Treatment with Ascorbic Acid. The treatment was done on April 9th. I had taken the CL down to zero for the treatment.

    I started adding Chlorine again on the 16th (Trichlor 3" Tabs in an inline chlorinator turned on 3). Each day I would test (Taylor K-1005 Test Kit) for signs of chlorine and there would be none.

    Over the last five days, I added 1 lb shock each day (Total 5 lbs), still no Chlorine after testing.

    Today at noon, I added 2lbs of shock and tested 1 hour later just to see if my reagents were working (Test Kit is only 2 weeks old). I showed FC and TC in excess of 5ppm. Also showed that PH went from 7.2 to 8.2.

    Five hours later, I tested CL and PH again.
    FC = 0
    TC = 0
    PH = 7.2

    Noon Results Were:
    TA = 60
    CA = 230
    CYA = 30

    HISTORY: I know that I have extremely high levels of iron in my pool since the stain removal. I have had to sequester them with 64 ounces of Regal Metal Out. If I do not add the metal out, when adding shock, my pool water turns green.

    What is causing the chorine not to hold? What do I do?

    Is iron the problem? Do I have to drain the pool to get all of the iron out?
    Concrete inground pool in Texas
    approximately 15,000 gals

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    I am not too familiar with dealing with metal. I thought you had to be slow adding the FC back up to avoid restaining. Someone else will have to help with that.

    I want to point out that you better stop using puck and "shock" (if it is dichlor) or your CYA is going to quickly get out of control and you will be draining the pool for that reason.

    Start using liquid chlorine (bleach) to try to raise the FC.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    Iron doesn't have anything to do with why you can't maintain chlorine levels. However, to get the iron out of the water permanently you do indeed need to replace water. However, with regular application of sequestrant there isn't any need to get the iron out of the water.

    Something is using up all of your chlorine. I suspect that it is algae, but it could also be a couple of less likely possibilities. You went a full week between starting the treatment and starting to add chlorine again, plenty of time for algae to get started. Plus, at least when you started adding chlorine you would lose all of it to any left over ascorbic acid, so it could well have been longer before you might have had any chance of chlorine attacking algae.

    What does the water look like at this point?
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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    Today, before I added the 2 lbs of shock, it was beautiful blue and crystal clear. Overall, the pool looked really good..........but no chlorine.

    After the 2 lbs of shock, light green but clear water.....seems to be getting lighter and clearer each hour, I will continue to run the pump for the next 24 hours.
    Concrete inground pool in Texas
    approximately 15,000 gals

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    Clear water does dramatically reduce the odds of algae being an issue. The green right after adding chlorine is almost certainly from the iron in the water. Which leaves the question of why the chlorine is vanishing unsolved.

    How much ascorbic acid did you use in the stain removal process?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    Used 3.5 lbs of Natural Chemistry Stain Free Extra Strength.

    What should I do?

    How much CL (Trichlor) should I use to get it to hold? If I use bleach, how much? (Can you just start using bleach even though I have always used Trichlor 3" Tablets?)
    Concrete inground pool in Texas
    approximately 15,000 gals

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    Since you used that much, there certainly would have been some excess AA to neutralize when you started adding chlorine. But between the tablet feeder and the 7+ lbs of shock you have used there should have been more than enough chlorine to remove all of the AA.

    Yes, you are fine switching to bleach, or mixing bleach and continuing to use trichlor, as long as you don't pour bleach directly onto undissolved trichlor tablets.

    I don't know how much more chlorine you will need to use. After an AA treatment you want to add chlorine slowly to prevent any chance of the stains returning, but it may be time to risk that and switch to shocking the pool (which essentially means adding chlorine is larger doses more often until it is enough).
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    Is there a particular bleach? Or, can I just pick up bleach at Walmart? Since I have never used bleach, is there a guide? For approximately, 15,000 gals, normally how much should it take to increase by 1ppm?
    Concrete inground pool in Texas
    approximately 15,000 gals

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    Typically bleach is bleach. Just pick up the best priced stuff you can find...though watch out for the "bargain brands" as they sometimes are lower in concentration. Also don't get one with any additives, or scents, or ones that are "splashless".

    To calculate how much use using poolcalculator.com.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    Should I add more sequesterant before shocking (Regal Metal Out 2 bottles: 64 ozs)?

    Each time I add shock, the water instantly starts turning green. After the 3rd day in a row of adding 1lb of shock daily, the water turned so dark that it was almost brown. (I though that I had enough Metal Out in the water from the 2 bottles added the prior week.)
    Concrete inground pool in Texas
    approximately 15,000 gals

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    How are you measuring your CYA?

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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    Using CYA reagent in Taylor Test Kit K-1005
    Concrete inground pool in Texas
    approximately 15,000 gals

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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    I can't find an accessible MSDS for Regal Metal Out. Does it give any ingredients on the bottle? I'm wondering if it's EDTA and that this is contributing to the high chlorine demand. HEDP would be more resistant to getting broken down by chlorine which is why we recommend products with HEDP for use as a metal sequestrant.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    Ingredients are not listed on the bottle. I have sent an email to Regal requesting the MSDS sheet.

    In the mean time, what metal sequestrants do you recommend that contain HEDP?
    Concrete inground pool in Texas
    approximately 15,000 gals

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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    See the Pool School article Metals in the Water and Metal Stains.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    Just so you know, Texas, when I've done the AA treatment before with double doses of jack's magic (pink) and polyquat 60 (to avoid algae) it has taken sustained dosing to get the chlorine to hold -- but when I do it I set aide time to at first check every couple of hours and consistently add liquid chlorine. It still took days to reliably hold. I think you'll be in a better position o control this part of the process using liquid chlorine and pool Calc and just keep dosing to where your target level is.

    Did you use polyquat 60 when you did the treatment? I've noticed it fights my FC a liitle, so that could exacerbate the chlorine demand.

    At any rate, before you shock, if you're feeling adventurous and don't mind an experiment, you might want to consider looking at this product ( http://www.askthepoolguy.net/ferritabs/ ) that is supposed to help get iron out while shocking.

    I tried it when doing the AA treatment but was so highly sequestered that none of my iron oxidized so there wasn't any filtering to be done I'd be curious to find out if it works. At any rate, just wanted to offer solidarity from a fellow well-water-with-iron pool owner. Best wishes!
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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    I did not use an algaecide. But, algae does not seem to be my problem. Water is cyrstal clear and blue but will not hold chlorine.

    I put another pound of shock (different brand) in the pool today and within a few minutes the pool is clear green again. (I have put 5 32oz bottles of Metal Out in the water in the last 2 weeks)

    With this green water, I run the risk of staining my plaster all over again. Can't get past this chemical reaction when adding chlorine.

    One Additional Note: My fill water is city water
    Concrete inground pool in Texas
    approximately 15,000 gals

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    It's easy to check public water to see of it has metals in it. Just get a water report from the utility. A lot of them now have their's online.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    The stain that I removed from my plaster is now in my water. Since it was an iron stain, does this now mean that all of this iron is now in my water? Or was the stain just a result of the iron that was in my water?
    Concrete inground pool in Texas
    approximately 15,000 gals

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    Re: Unable to Get CL to Hold after Stain Removal (AA Treatme

    Iron stains are lifted off by "dissolving" back into the water but the iron is never removed from the pool and will return back as stains if you don't keep sequestrant in the pool.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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