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Thread: Timer sparked and burned...

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    Timer sparked and burned...

    When I flipped the switch to on, to backwash the pool, it sparked, smoked and burned a hole where it says (said) off on the left dial, and now it will turn on but quickly turns off. Is this something my husband can relace or fix easily??? Do we need to replace the whole box? or parts?
    and is there a better updated box? these dials seem ancient..
    20 x 40 rectangle vinyl liner 33000 gal.

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    pooly1's Avatar
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    Re: Timer sparked and burned...

    TURN OFF BREAKER something is shorting out hopefully your breaker tripped. Next What brand timer Intermatic? If so you can buy parts for those. If you have pics that would be helpful too.
    16 x 32 Inground Vinyl 21000, 2 returns, 1 skimmer, 1 main drain. Raypak Heater, Crystal Flo Sand Filter

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Timer sparked and burned...

    I really think the question of is this something your husband can fix is a question for him, if he is the type that changes out light switches, installs ceiling fans, etc. then the answer is probably yes. (at least he can probably replace it with a like model) If it is legal where you live to work on your own electrical stuff, that may be a different question,....
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: Timer sparked and burned...

    Ok, I am "the husband." I think I can easily switch the parts out. But, before I order parts, I would like to get your input on what probably CAUSED this problem. I have a Intermatic timer model T10404R - a dual timer for pool motor and vacuum. We also have a Compupool salt generator that is wired directly into the timer (where the burn is). I am attaching a picture of the unit and the burn spot on the timer (under the main (left) motor timer unit). They wired their line into this with 3 other wires. It has been working well for 7 years with another filter and 2 years since the salt generator was added - so I am wondering why it has just now burned. Any ideas?
    Also, is this the proper install of the salt generator wires?
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    ~32k gal, plaster, 3HP Intelliflo, 100 sqft Quad D.E., EasyTouch SWG, Gas/solar heating, Waterfalls x2

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    Re: Timer sparked and burned...

    Do you know what is connected at that terminal? My guess is that the load got too high for some reason, probably the pump drew the extra power and burnt the connection. What is the wire size and are they all solid wires?
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
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    Re: Timer sparked and burned...

    I'm guessing too many wires bent around the screw and the connection started getting loose causing it to overheat and burn. You can only get two #12 or 14's on one of those screws if you do one on each side, not two going around plus one of those little white timer motor wires. I call crappy install. Redo that connection the right way and it might be fixed. If not, you can just replace the mechanism on the half that is burnt. Save the timer motor if it is still good; you can use it someday.

    On that model, I believe it is a T104M on either side to swap the mechanism, but I'm not familiar with that particular one.
    Current: 28,000G 18'x36' I/G AnthonySylvan Plaster; Waterway 60 sq.ft. DE Filter; 1.0hp x 1.65 SF Two-Speed (B2982) WhisperFlo; 2004-Present
    Previous: 40,000G 20'x40' I/G Koven unlined WWII salvage 5/8" marine steel; Lomart Stainless Sand Filter; 3/4hp Hayward SuperPump; 1946-2003 (managed by me from about 1964)
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Timer sparked and burned...

    That looks like a typical loose connection that overheated to me. I'd use a big wire nut to connect all the wires and then pigtail out of it to the terminal. I'd use #12 wire for the pigtail.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Timer sparked and burned...

    Thank so much to all of you for your input.
    The terminal what burned was the positive "input" terminal. The 4 across are: + input, + switched output, - input, and - switched output. The hot wire was 12 gauge solid. The two from the timers were about 18 gauge strands. Also attached was the black wire from the Compupool CPSC36 salt generator. It was about a 14 or 16 gauge stranded wire (like a table lamp cord). All but the 12 gauge was melted with the plastic and I just had to cut them away.
    The nut was still tight (in fact all of them were), so I don't know that being lose was the problem.
    I cleaned everything off this afternoon and left the Compupool disconnected. I used a pigtail to join the hot wire, the 2 timer wires and a solid 12 ga jump wire. The 12 ga is all that is connected to the old, burned connection. The connection cleaned up pretty well with a steel brush.
    It worked and the pool motor and vacuum motor are both running. I probably don't need a new timer.
    I plan to call Compupool tomorrow to see exactly how their red and black wires are supposed to be connected - unless one of you guys know. The black wire from Compupool unit was connected to the first position (+ input) and the red wire was connected to the third position (- input). I saw one installation online that showed both going into the #2 and #4 switched positions. I want to make sure before I reconnect it.
    For now the pool is circulating, and that is good.
    Thanks again. I used to think my wife was a pool genius. Now I know where she gets her insight. If you have any more suggestions about this, please let me know.
    ~32k gal, plaster, 3HP Intelliflo, 100 sqft Quad D.E., EasyTouch SWG, Gas/solar heating, Waterfalls x2

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Timer sparked and burned...

    The compupool power should be hooked to the switched terminals if you're using the timer to run the filter pump. If you're using the swg to power the filter pump then it should be connected to the incoming power.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Timer sparked and burned...

    If this helps, my timer has the SWG and Pump connected to the 2 and 4 terminals. My 240V lines are on 1 and 3.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
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    Re: Timer sparked and burned...

    I just talked with Compupool and they said to connect their black wire to 1 and their red wire to 3 - so the unit gets constant power (not switched).
    That is how ours was connected and it worked for 2 years. I am inclined to install it back that way unless you guys have a great reason to put it on 2 and 4.
    ~32k gal, plaster, 3HP Intelliflo, 100 sqft Quad D.E., EasyTouch SWG, Gas/solar heating, Waterfalls x2

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    Re: Timer sparked and burned...

    There are some advantages and disadavantes to both methods.

    I put mine on 2 and 4. The mechanical timer controls the on/off of the SWG. I don't have to worry about setting the time and run time in the SWG controller. When the pump is on, the SWG is on. I don't have to rely on the "low water flow" "sensor" activating in case the SWG tries to come on if the pump is off. The compupool SWG's don't have a true flow switch.
    23,000 IG Plaster pool w/ spa, Pentair FNS Plus 48 DE Filter, Hayward RS1000 Main pump, Polaris booster pump, CPSC48 SWG, Legend pool sweep. Dallas, Texas, Full sun, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Timer sparked and burned...

    I would rewire the SWG with solid 12 gauge wire.

    Is the pump wired to the SWG or is it wired to the intermatic timer? Since the pool is up and running without the SWG wired, I think you do not have the pump wired to the SWG. If the pump is wired to the intermatic timer, then like Dave says, the SWG needs to be wired to the switch terminals 2 and 4. Your pump should also be wired to 2 and 4. If you are following the compupool manual, then the pool pump is wired to the SWG and uses that timer to turn on and off. Terminals 1 and 3 connect the white clock wires and your 240V line voltage.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
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    Re: Timer sparked and burned...

    Quote Originally Posted by garymwyatt
    T All but the 12 gauge was melted with the plastic and I just had to cut them away.
    The nut was still tight (in fact all of them were), so I don't know that being lose was the problem.
    I cleaned everything off this afternoon and left the Compupool disconnected. I used a pigtail to join the hot wire, the 2 timer wires and a solid 12 ga jump wire. The 12 ga is all that is connected to the old, burned connection. The connection cleaned up pretty well with a steel brush.
    It worked and the pool motor and vacuum motor are both running. I probably don't need a new timer.
    .
    Oh yes it was. When you have too many wires on a screw, the screw can be tight on one or two and the others will be loose and arcing.
    Current: 28,000G 18'x36' I/G AnthonySylvan Plaster; Waterway 60 sq.ft. DE Filter; 1.0hp x 1.65 SF Two-Speed (B2982) WhisperFlo; 2004-Present
    Previous: 40,000G 20'x40' I/G Koven unlined WWII salvage 5/8" marine steel; Lomart Stainless Sand Filter; 3/4hp Hayward SuperPump; 1946-2003 (managed by me from about 1964)
    Ancient Taylor K-2000, upgraded with Taylor CH, TA, and FAS-DPD, and TFT CYA tests.

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