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Thread: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

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    Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    I need to replace my Hayward Super II pump. Motor went out, and everything from my setup is just old. In researching variable speed pumps, i am finding some really great options, and they come with great prices.
    Here is what i have, 30,000 gallon pool, with a sand filter. 2 inch lines all around I can go anywhere from a Hayward Super Pump Variable speed to a Pentair Intelliflo XF - i understand the higher end will cycle my water faster, but from what i know, it doesnt hurt to cycle the water slower. I was leaning twards a variable speed on the lower price range. Is the benefit of spening more money worth the benefit of the higher end?

    And another semi-technical question. I have a vaccuum, and was wondering how this will work with the variable speed pumps. Is it just the matter of having the pump run on high speed for the first hour everyday to get the vaccuum to work, and then let the pump calm down to cycle the water to turn over the water? Is it okay to leave the suction at the non propelled vaccuum at the bottom of the pool?

    I feel like i am in the shallow end but still over my head.
    30,000 Stressful Gallons - Inground Plaster - Cleaned with a Sand filter - 1980's construction
    Two Kids - Love the pool, and love to watch me work on it.

    - Dave

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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    Welcome to the forum. I have been at or near the shallow end for about 10 years now. My mother always told me not to venture too far into the deep end.

    Have you considered a 2-speed instead of a VS? Quite a bit more economical and you typically run them on low for most of the time turning them up only to vacuum or run a water feature.

    The size of your filter is quite important in determining the correct HP pump.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    Thanks for replying! I have a hayward pro series high rate sand filter - model s244s - effective filtration area 3.14 sq feet, 20 GPM filteration rate, and 62 GPM Backwass design flowrate.... does this help me? maximum pressure is 50.
    30,000 Stressful Gallons - Inground Plaster - Cleaned with a Sand filter - 1980's construction
    Two Kids - Love the pool, and love to watch me work on it.

    - Dave

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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    To echo part of Dave's post above- I find with my VSP I really only use 2 speeds.....I only vary things when I'm "experimenting"
    16 x 32 Grecian Vinyl. Salt-Aqua Plus PS-4, Hayward Pro Series Sand Filter, Hayward Ecostar SP34000vsp, Gulfstream HE-125-T-A Heat/Cool heat Pump

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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    So, going with a 2 speed pump - the appropriate way to operate with a vaccuum would be to have to on high speed while vaccuuming, then lower it to cycle the water. Is it okay to cycle the water through the vaccuum?
    30,000 Stressful Gallons - Inground Plaster - Cleaned with a Sand filter - 1980's construction
    Two Kids - Love the pool, and love to watch me work on it.

    - Dave

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    It would be best to only be pulling through the vacuum while it is actually ... well, vacuuming and then pulling from the skimmer at other times.

    The problem is, now you are starting to talk about some level of automation to be able to automatically select speeds and change where the suction is coming from.

    You could just add a timer to have the pump run on high for a little while to vacuum and then on low for more circulation but still pulling through the vacuum. Currently do you have all flow going through the suction cleaner? You may only need some of the flow to have it function and the rest from the skimmer ... but then again, we do not know your plumbing setup.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    The payback on a variable speed vs. a 2-speed is also dependent on your electric rate. If you live in an are with high electric rates you still might want to consider a VS.

    You can buy a timer that will operate a valve actuator an your pump. If you have a dedicated suction line that you leave the cleaner hooked to, that might be a good idea for you.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    Not to stir the pot, but the new Superpump VS (variable speed) is intriguing. It is only ~$100 more than a 2-speed super or super II.

    Leebo has looked at it some and turns out it was a drop in for his old super pump plumbing: http://www.troublefreepool.com/haywa...mp-t57039.html
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    i love the moderators. That is the first time i have ever said that. LOL. Back when the house was built in the 70's, (Phoneix, AZ) and they had to use charges to break up the rock that the pool sits in, there were two pumps, one for the skimmer and one for the "sweep". Since then, and before i move in (two years ago), the two lines were connected with a valve (jandy valve?) that regulates flow to the current, now-busted, 3/4 HP SuperPump II. I have never been able to run both the vaccuum off of the sweep suction line AND the skimmer -Although i would love to be able to. In theory, i could put a variable speed pump, or two speed pump on high, run both for the first hour or so, then the time switches the pump to a lower setting (built in timer on superpump VS) and then the water circulates, from the vaccuum and from the skimmer. Right?
    30,000 Stressful Gallons - Inground Plaster - Cleaned with a Sand filter - 1980's construction
    Two Kids - Love the pool, and love to watch me work on it.

    - Dave

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by dprante
    i love the moderators. That is the first time i have ever said that. LOL.


    Quote Originally Posted by dprante
    Right?
    Right.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    OK, so we need a smiley of a fat guy beating a dead horse, becuase i would use that right now. Variable Speed Pumps - they dont really have a horsepower rating, becuase it all depends on what speed they are running. BUT i need to ensure whatever variable speed pump or two speed pump i get can run both suction pipes at the same time and actually work the vaccuum. BUT, how do i know what speed that should be?
    30,000 Stressful Gallons - Inground Plaster - Cleaned with a Sand filter - 1980's construction
    Two Kids - Love the pool, and love to watch me work on it.

    - Dave

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    I think the VS Super Pump is ~2HP at max speed ... or something like that. The Intelliflo is 4HP and the EcoPump is 3HP ... these are all from memory and may be way off

    In any case, you would just experiment to find what RPM gave you enough suction to run the vac and the skimmer to your satisfaction. The lower the speed, the less electricity used ... so that is your trade off. What is good enough while not costing too much to run?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    IntelliFlo at max speed is just slightly less than a 3 HP WhisperFlo. The EcoStar at max speed is just a tiny bit smaller than the IntelliFlo. The Super Pump VS at maximum speed is just slightly smaller than a 3/4 HP Super II, ie way smaller than the other two. In some situations that is a good thing, in others not so much.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    Wow ... I was way off.

    I did not realize the Super Pump VS was that small. Seems like that may not be powerful enough to do what drante is looking to do.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    Dang. Back to the DrawingBoard i guess? Should I just go for the big Inteliflow? The lower the speed the more saving, right? So nothing is too efficient... its only a few more hundred dollars. ugh.

    THank you everyone for you help though, i would have made a grave mistake without coming here first.
    30,000 Stressful Gallons - Inground Plaster - Cleaned with a Sand filter - 1980's construction
    Two Kids - Love the pool, and love to watch me work on it.

    - Dave

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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    IntelliFlo at max speed is just slightly less than a 3 HP WhisperFlo. The EcoStar at max speed is just a tiny bit smaller than the IntelliFlo. The Super Pump VS at maximum speed is just slightly smaller than a 3/4 HP Super II, ie way smaller than the other two. In some situations that is a good thing, in others not so much.

    Can you let me know where you got this information? The Hayward spec sheet on the site is saying that its max hp is 1.5. Should i not trust that?
    30,000 Stressful Gallons - Inground Plaster - Cleaned with a Sand filter - 1980's construction
    Two Kids - Love the pool, and love to watch me work on it.

    - Dave

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    I think JL was looking at the performance curves:

    You really can't trust hp ratings to tell much about a pump, you really need to look at the performance curves.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    Interesting. Looks like that Super Pump VS is pretty similar to my Superflo 1HP 2-speed.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    I think JL was looking at the performance curves:

    You really can't trust hp ratings to tell much about a pump, you really need to look at the performance curves.

    Oh Wow... i never even thought to compare it like that but that is interesting isnt it?
    Thank you so much for point those figures out JL.
    30,000 Stressful Gallons - Inground Plaster - Cleaned with a Sand filter - 1980's construction
    Two Kids - Love the pool, and love to watch me work on it.

    - Dave

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    Re: Pump Replacement - Is anything TOO efficient?

    Ugh, okay, so i was comparing the Super VS against the Max FLo -

    Super VS - http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/lite...LITSUPVS13.pdf
    MaxFlo- VS - http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/lite...TMAXFLVS13.pdf

    So me trying to learn all of this, it seems the ratios are not easy comparable between the two, but the maxflo moves more water, right?
    30,000 Stressful Gallons - Inground Plaster - Cleaned with a Sand filter - 1980's construction
    Two Kids - Love the pool, and love to watch me work on it.

    - Dave

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