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Thread: chemistry mystery

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    chemistry mystery

    Since Thursday and the incremental addition of muriatic acid, the pH has come down from 8 to 7.2, but, alas, the TA has only come down from 150 to 125. Now that pH is so low, how do I bring down the TA? And, the CH is at 450! How do I bring that down?? Tech support from Taylor Kits said there may be copper or iron in the water, preventing the calcium test to render a true blue, and suggested I add additional titrant R-0012 before the test, which I did and the end was still purple. Lots of metal, perhaps? Calcium, Alkalinity, and Metal, O MY!
    6K gal., cartridge filter, AG
    Dallas, TX

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: chemistry mystery

    Quote Originally Posted by Greta
    the pH has come down from 8 to 7.2, but, alas, the TA has only come down from 150 to 125
    Lowering your ph for 8.0 to 7.2 will only lower TA ~13 ppm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greta
    Now that pH is so low, how do I bring down the TA?
    In pool school:http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...l%20alkalinity
    Quote Originally Posted by Greta
    And, the CH is at 450! How do I bring that down??
    The only way to bring this down is to do a partial drain and refill. However, if you watch ph and TA, you can manage CH at 450 ppm. See: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...alcium_scaling
    Quote Originally Posted by Greta
    Tech support from Taylor Kits said there may be copper or iron in the water, preventing the calcium test to render a true blue, and suggested I add additional titrant R-0012 before the test, which I did and the end was still purple.
    Add 5 drops of the R-0012 at the beginning. See the extended test kit directions: http://www.troublefreepool.com/exten...1.html#p206396
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: chemistry mystery

    The pool is again draining...evidently I needed to tend to the CH before correcting pH and TA. The pool calculator recommended a 56% drain and refill with 0 CH refill. Hope municipal water isn't high.
    On reducing the TA, the part I missed was the repetition of the process. Guess that could take quite a while. Maybe I'll get this figured out in time for summer of 2014.
    On the testing for calcium, I did add the extra drops, and the end was still purple and not blue. Maybe the refill will correct everything. Thank you for your help.
    6K gal., cartridge filter, AG
    Dallas, TX

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: chemistry mystery

    I was neglect in asking what kind of pool surface you have? What is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greta
    evidently I needed to tend to the CH before correcting pH and TA.
    You can drain, but you can also manage the high CH without draining by keeping TA and pH a little on the low side. Either way works. Do you know how your CH got higher in the first place? Have you checked your fill water? Were you using Cal-hypo to chlorinate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greta
    I did add the extra drops, and the end was still purple and not blue.
    Not a big deal, then your CH is when it turned purple.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: chemistry mystery

    Pool surface is vinyl. No, I don't know how CH got so high. Originally, I was using the chlorine tabs, but the CYA was so high that pool store sold me Calcium caplets, same product as "turbo shock", which supplier reassured me had no CYA in it. But that's only been for the past 2 months or so, until I scrapped it all and started with liquid bleach. I have not checked fill water, but will. About 2-3 months ago, TA was low, so pool store sold me Alkalinity Plus. Then I had to drain due to high CYA. But lately, TA is too high, along with pH, so I've been adding acid. Now that's draining. In remedying one thing, I screw up another. I had a pool once before and had none of these issues. If city water is high, I'll have to manage it as you recommend, by keeping TA and pH low. How long does it take, ballpark, to raise pH using aeration? I have "fountain" attached to pool return.
    6K gal., cartridge filter, AG
    Dallas, TX

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: chemistry mystery

    If your surface is vinyl, then for the most part you can ignore your CH (and csi). I was assuming you had a plaster pool. So stop draining!

    You need to spend some time in pool school and take control of your pool and stop being jerked around by the pool store. The link is at the upper right, but don't be afraid to ask questions.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: chemistry mystery

    I thought vinyl could scale just like plaster? I know low CH in vinyl doesn't matter.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: chemistry mystery

    It can, but I have only heard of it with really high CH (600+) and poorly maintained other parameters.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: chemistry mystery

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnN
    I thought vinyl could scale just like plaster? I know low CH in vinyl doesn't matter.
    It can, but 450 isn't that high.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: chemistry mystery

    Ahh, thanks. Luckily I don't have to worry at all, either way. My CH is 30 right now. I know you CA and AZ people wish you had that number. If it makes you feel better, I have to deal with iron.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

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