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Thread: Wiring

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Delaware Beaches
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    Wiring

    Good morning all. First of all, apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but it has similar equipment to what I'm using. I've been searching for answers on exactly this type of setup and am glad I found TFP!

    Apologies also if this is a thread hijack and you would prefer a new thread. I posted here since all of the above seemed relevant.

    Topic spilt. Yes, that was a thread hijack. Please ask question in your own topic. JasonLion

    My setup:
    - Pool only, no spa/Jacuzzi/etc
    - Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm heater (SR400LP)
    - Pentair Pinnacle filter pump 1HP (240v)
    - Pentair Letro booster pump 3/4HP (240v)
    - Pentair Letro Legend Platinum pressure side cleaner
    - High voltage pool light on GFCI

    My current setup is using regular mechanical toggle switches that were installed when the pool was. I have switches for:
    - Filter pump on/off
    - Booster pump on/off ("slaved" to the filter pump)
    - Heater on/off
    - Light on/off
    - GFCI

    As far as I know, there is no fireman control on the heater so could it be turned off/on independently of filter pump, or even have the filter pump turned off too soon after heater is turned off- I've not tested this as I don't want to damage the heater.

    I wanted to replace the plain-jane toggles with some form of automation to help get the electrical & chemical bills more under control. I experimented with X10, but that was futile. So at the end of last season, I bought the following:
    - Intermatic PE15300 control center
    - Intermatic P4243ME valve/pump switch
    - Intermatic PE650 transceiver
    - Intermatic PE953 wireless remote
    - Intermatic PA122 water temperature sensor

    I also had emailed Intermatic technical support with my setup and they said that combination would work for what I wanted.

    Now that spring has sprung, I want to get this installed and I of course have more detailed questions. I've been trying to decide exactly how to lay this out to do what I want.

    My goal:
    - Have timed cycles on the filter pump
    - Have booster pump still "slaved" to filter pump
    - Have heater use fireman control to ensure filter pump is on when in use, and have filter pump continue circulation for a minimum time period after switching off.
    - Have temperature control at wireless remote only.
    - Have light switched
    - Have the ability to control all of this remotely

    As far as the documentation goes, I have all of the hardcopies that came with the equipment as packed from Intermatic. I also have PDFs I downloaded last year (sorry, lost the links) for the 1353, 4243, PE10000 series, PE15300, PE45343RC, and all of my equipment.

    My questions:
    - What circuits should I wire with what? I already figured out using Mode 5 on the 1353 is what I need there for the filter pump. That ties circuits 1 & 2 together on the 1353 to control the filter pump. I assumed that to get the fireman control, I would need to wire up the heater on circuit 3. Circuit 1 on the 4243 I guess would get the booster pump, then circuit 2 would get the light. I'm a little confused because the 45343 docs talk about the fireman control being used on the 4243. Do I need to swap the "slave items" (heater and booster) over to the 4243 and put the light on circuit 3 of the 1353? It looks more to me like the intended use of the 4243 is for valve control like the OPs setup, and then when switching from pool to spa, you want the heater to kick in. Maybe this is not what I need.
    - In general, how to wire the two controllers together, but that would probably fall into place with the above.
    - Currently, I cut both breakers for the pool items when winterized (240v/120v). How does this setup handle being winterized? Should I leave the breakers on? Would I be better off wiring the 1353 timer power to 120v instead of 240v and just cutting the pump breaker? They state that the programs have a 40 year memory, but the clock only has 8 hours, so I think this may be the better route if I still need to cut the 240v breaker.

    So for wiring:
    1353
    Pins - Desc - Connection
    1 - Timer power - 120v L1 or 240v L1
    2 - Timer power - 120v N or 240v L2
    3 - Circuit 1 Line - 240v L1
    4 - Circuit 1 Load - Filter pump L1
    5 - Circuit 2 Line - 240v L2
    6 - Circuit 2 Load - Filter pump L2
    7 - Circuit 3 Line -
    8 - Circuit 3 Load -

    4243
    Colors - Desc - Connection
    Black - Transformer/control supply - 120v L1 or 240v L1
    White -Transformer/control supply - 120v N *cap unused
    Red - Transformer/control supply - 240v L2 *cap unused
    Brown - Circuit 2 Load -
    Grey - Circuit 2 Load -
    Violet - Circuit 2 Line -
    Orange - Circuit 2 Line -
    Blue - Circuit 1 Load -
    Yellow - Circuit 1 Load -
    Black - Circuit 1 Line -
    Red - Circuit 1 Line -
    Blk/Wht - Remote master
    Blk/Wht - Remote master

    I really need to try to get this to work since I've already invested around $900 in all of this. I'm a computer programmer by day, but a very good handy man at home and can do just about everything I've ever tried. This has really got me stumped though as I don't want to screw up anything.

    Thanks for taking the time to listen and I look forward to any help you can provide.
    Steve
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Re: Wiring

    Thanks for moving this where it was needed.

    For reference, in my comments the thread I refer to is:
    intematic-digital-timer-and-relay-frustration-t18252.html

    Also, after a lot more in-depth reading of several PDF manuals I have, I think I should be using Mode 3 on the P1353ME (Pump, Aux, Cleaner) and only switching one leg of the 240v instead of both as in Mode 5. Mode 3 has the "slave" functions built in for circuit 3 for priming the booster pump while the filter pump is running.
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

  3. Back To Top    #3
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Wiring

    The key thing to keep in mind is that the 1353 and 4243 don't know about each other and are not guaranteed to be in sync with each other. I can't find a 4243 manual at the moment, but my memory is that it can control the main pump, booster pump, and act as a fireman switch all at the same time. The 1353 can not do all of those things at once. You need all of those features on the same controller because, remember, the two controllers don't know about each other. The problem with this setup is that the 4243 is the one with remote control options, so this setup means no remote for the light. Otherwise this appears to be the best approach.

    There are many different ways to do this, each with different compromises. It is difficult to run through all of the options. Perhaps you can narrow things down by telling just what you want to be able to control with the remote.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Wiring

    Let me se if I have this correct.
    You have a main pump, a booster pump, a heater, and valve(s) to switch between pool and spa?

    You have two(2) electronic time controllers to do all that with?

    Number one is that you don't have to break both legs going to the pump.

    I can't find the manual for the 4243 If you could attach it here I would be glad to look at it.

    I see both you and Jason beat me but I'm posting anyway.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: Wiring

    Finally! I was barking up the wrong tree. Your comment "remember, the two controllers don't know about each other" triggered something. I found another PDF for the remote transceiver which looks good!
    http://www.poolandspacontrols.com/~/med ... PE650.ashx

    From that, it looks like the 1353 will be the "main" device to run timers for filter pump and booster pump. Since it also needs to have circulation, the heater has to be run there too. The light then gets hooked to the 4243, leaving one circuit unused on the 4243.

    The 650 transceiver has wiring harnesses that attach to BOTH the 1353 and 4243 and therefore can control both AND give the remote control to items on both.

    I plan on putting this all together next week. I hope to document what I did and report back.

    Thanks!!
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

  6. Back To Top    #6

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    Re: Wiring

    Just for clarity, Bama:

    - No spa/jacuzzi, just a pool. Valves for skimmers will remain manual.
    - Nice to have confirmation that I don't have to break both legs!

    I also found a nasty email I sent to Intermatic last year. Their web site USED have complete manuals before I purchased, and I saved the PDFs from there. Now they have the redesigned "Explorer-like" +/- tree to navigate and the PDFs I'm interested in are gone. Their site staff said the old site "went away" basically and all the content was moved; If it was on the old site, it should be on the new site...

    Oh well... Glad I saved it. I have been able to find other manuals a lot of the time on the SmartHome site. They and InyoPools seem to prefer duplicating the PDF content rather than just links that get broken over time.

    Thanks again people!
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
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    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Wiring

    Looks like you've got it figured out.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: Wiring

    Well, it's raining here on the East Coast (remnants of TS Andrea). I finally completed the wiring, but haven't paired up the PE650/PE953 remote yet. I was testing out the basic functions and have a question.

    I just have the 1353 set to Mode 1 now (three independent circuits) and have the 4243 slaved to it via the PE650. The light & GFCI function flawlessly, the main pump and booster pump do as well. However, the heater will not power up.

    I haven't run a meter on it yet as I just wanted to do a quick function test. I have power hooked up as directed in the instructions, then the fireman lines hooked up in series as directed as well (one line comes from the heater and connects to one fireman line on the PE650, the other from the PE650 goes to the 1353 and the other from the 1353 goes back to the heater).

    Something like (periods used for spacing):
    +--Heater---+
    |.............|
    |...........PE650
    |.............|
    +--PE1353--+

    My question is this: Should I be getting power at the heater with the fireman disconnected/off? I was under the assumption that the fireman only controlled the actual burner and that the heater would power up without it.

    I guess I will need to pair the remote and try it out when the rain stops here for sure.

    Some side notes:
    - It ended up taking me about 2.5 days to complete the project. Had to rip out all the old conduit that was there, then put all this together.
    - This thing is pretty now that it's all done except for the programming. Remote looks good too.
    - The PE15300 panel leaks like crazy even though it's supposed to be watertight. I am going to have to build a little roof over the panel and possibly put some weather stripping on the inside edge of the door. The biggest disappointment, but I suppose it could be due to two days of heavy rain from TS Andrea.
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Delaware Beaches
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    Re: Wiring

    Just an update:

    Paired up the remote and receiver and set up the clock timer. Heater works fine. Fireman switches on both the 1353 AND the 650 need to be closed for the heater to power up at all.
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Delaware Beaches
    Posts
    59

    Re: Wiring

    Well, I finally got off my duff and am researching test kits too. Found good info here, along with the advice above from my timer project, and decided to become a supporter. Thanks for all you guys do!
    Built March 2006 - 26k gallon, Pacific Pools 18'x36' Roman end vinyl liner, 8' Roman steps one end, Sand Dollar SD80 filter, Pentair Pinnacle 1HP pump, Pentair Letro 3/4HP pressure side booster, Pentair Letro Legend Platinum cleaner, Sta-Rite Max-E-Therm SR400LP, Hayward CL200 chlorinator
    Added April 2013 - Intermatic PE15300 (1353ME timer & 4243ME switch, PE650 transceiver, PE953 remote, PA122 temp sensor)
    TF-100 XL w/ SpeedStir

  12. Back To Top    #12
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    May 2007
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    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
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    Re: Wiring

    Thank you!
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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