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Thread: New Pool - First Time Heating

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    New Pool - First Time Heating

    Hi,

    I am heating my pool for the first time for a kid's party tomorrow. I have a 32'x15 (approx. 15K Gallons) in-ground, free form pool with an attached spa (9'x7' oval - approx 50 sq ft). The spa is elevated 18" with the typical 2' waterfall into the pool. I have a 400K LP Heater. The current pool temp is 72 since it has been raining for 2 days. The air temp should hit 78 today with some clouds. Going down to 55 tonight. The whole pool is screened in, so that would help with any wind. The party is at 2pm tomorrow. I figured I would start the heater today around 1pm and monitor for 5 hours to see what type of increase I get. Then I can leave the heater on overnight or wake up early and start again. I do not have a solar blanket.

    I'm hoping you can help with the questions:

    1. Should I isolate the pool from the spa and just heat the pool? Or should I heat it in regular pool mode and have the hot water enter the pool and spa, utilizing the waterfall? I also have two foam jets that i think I should keep off.
    2. I did all the calculations and it looks like it should take 6 hours. This seems a little low to me. I did the calculations on 16,000 Gallons.
    3. Any calculations on how much the temp would drop overnight without a blanket? I've read I could lose up to 50% of the increase.

    THANKS!
    15,000 gal. Free Form IG PebbleTec Pool, 50sqft Oval Spa with 24" Spill Over, 2 Crystal Foam Jets on Tanning Ledge
    Pentair 2HP, Pentair DE Filter, Aquapure SWCG, Jandy iAqualink System
    Pentair 400K BTU Heater, TF-100 Test Kit
    Pool build: new-pool-build-in-tampa-fl-updated-3-25-t54884.html

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    pragmatic's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    Based on my recent experience, your estimate is spot on
    For efficiency, I would turn-off the spa (or any waterfall) to elimainate evaporative cooling. But, on the other hand it, I found it nice to have the option for a quick bump on the heater to incresase the spa temp; probably doesn't make much difference on the cost. I just heated our pool for spring break; 7 days worth. 25K gallon, Initial water temp was upper 60's, air-temp of mid 70's. I'm dreading the gas bill
    Dave My Pool Build, ODK Build
    22X42 Gunite Freeform 23K Gal, 10X12 Spa
    Diamond-Brite midnight blue, 1800sq. ft Kool Deck
    Pentair Easy-Touch 8, 2-2hp Pentair, 500lb Sand Filter, 400K btu Pentair heater

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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic
    Based on my recent experience, your estimate is spot on
    For efficiency, I would turn-off the spa (or any waterfall) to elimainate evaporative cooling. But, on the other hand it, I found it nice to have the option for a quick bump on the heater to incresase the spa temp; probably doesn't make much difference on the cost. I just heated our pool for spring break; 7 days worth. 25K gallon, Initial water temp was upper 60's, air-temp of mid 70's. I'm dreading the gas bill
    Thanks for the fast reply!!

    I only have a 120 gallon tank, so my cost exposure is limited .
    15,000 gal. Free Form IG PebbleTec Pool, 50sqft Oval Spa with 24" Spill Over, 2 Crystal Foam Jets on Tanning Ledge
    Pentair 2HP, Pentair DE Filter, Aquapure SWCG, Jandy iAqualink System
    Pentair 400K BTU Heater, TF-100 Test Kit
    Pool build: new-pool-build-in-tampa-fl-updated-3-25-t54884.html

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    techgirl's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    I heated our pool in AZ for spring break using our 400K NG heater - started at 72 and heated to 84. I'm brand new to this so although I'll describe what I did, I have no idea if it's right . It was warm during the day but cooler at night (apologies, don't remember exactly what temp)

    We have our pump running high speed 12-4 am and low speed 7-11am. I didn't want the heater running overnight, so turned it on when I woke up (around 7) and by noon it was 84 degrees (around 2-3 degrees per hour). I didn't heat the spa in the day.

    We heated from March 18-April 1 and with using the spa every second or third night, using the natural gas firepit most evenings and using the NG barbecue a ton the gas bill was $148.

    [Oops, just realized you're on LP so this may not be relevant?]
    Inground 12500 gallon 96 foot perimeter, 24 by 24 pool (6 by 24 of which is a "wet deck" or tanning ledge), intellibrite in spa and pool, 2 pentair LED bubblers in tanning ledge, built in table in pool, spillover spa, pebble radiance, Pentair Mastertemp 400K BTU heater, Blue Square Q360 infloor cleaner, VS2050 pump, auto leveler, Pentair easytouch 4 with wireless controller, Pentair 420 filter, custom natural gas firepit with cobalt glass.

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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    Hopefully LP and NG should not be too different (except cost. I think LP is much more $$$). Thanks for the info! I hope I get 2 - 3 degrees an hour. That would be perfect. My heater burns 4.5 gallons an hour (that's what the gas company told me during hook up). If it took 6 hours, that would be $62 bucks for initial heat up.
    15,000 gal. Free Form IG PebbleTec Pool, 50sqft Oval Spa with 24" Spill Over, 2 Crystal Foam Jets on Tanning Ledge
    Pentair 2HP, Pentair DE Filter, Aquapure SWCG, Jandy iAqualink System
    Pentair 400K BTU Heater, TF-100 Test Kit
    Pool build: new-pool-build-in-tampa-fl-updated-3-25-t54884.html

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    techgirl's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    Quote Originally Posted by DJP1812
    Hopefully LP and NG should not be too different (except cost. I think LP is much more $$$). Thanks for the info! I hope I get 2 - 3 degrees an hour. That would be perfect. My heater burns 4.5 gallons an hour (that's what the gas company told me during hook up). If it took 6 hours, that would be $62 bucks for initial heat up.
    Your pool is a little bigger than mine and I have a 6 by 24 tanning ledge so the water is only 6 inches deep there and seems to help with warming, but for me even at double the cost heating it would be the difference between enjoying/not enjoying the water. We didn't use a cover because our pool is brand new and we wanted to enjoy the lights, but we ended up "reheating" every morning so I'd strongly suggest a cover.

    I am not sure if it's better to keep the heat consistently on (I turned it off each day when it hit 84 and didn't turn it on again until morning).

    I'm going to try using a clear cover to see if the lights still look nice at night with the cover on
    Inground 12500 gallon 96 foot perimeter, 24 by 24 pool (6 by 24 of which is a "wet deck" or tanning ledge), intellibrite in spa and pool, 2 pentair LED bubblers in tanning ledge, built in table in pool, spillover spa, pebble radiance, Pentair Mastertemp 400K BTU heater, Blue Square Q360 infloor cleaner, VS2050 pump, auto leveler, Pentair easytouch 4 with wireless controller, Pentair 420 filter, custom natural gas firepit with cobalt glass.

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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    I also have a tanning ledge (avg: 4' x 8') so that is some good news.

    Do you recall how much temp you lost overnight?

    Thanks!
    15,000 gal. Free Form IG PebbleTec Pool, 50sqft Oval Spa with 24" Spill Over, 2 Crystal Foam Jets on Tanning Ledge
    Pentair 2HP, Pentair DE Filter, Aquapure SWCG, Jandy iAqualink System
    Pentair 400K BTU Heater, TF-100 Test Kit
    Pool build: new-pool-build-in-tampa-fl-updated-3-25-t54884.html

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    techgirl's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    I don't remember for sure but I am guessing 6-8 degrees without a cover.
    Inground 12500 gallon 96 foot perimeter, 24 by 24 pool (6 by 24 of which is a "wet deck" or tanning ledge), intellibrite in spa and pool, 2 pentair LED bubblers in tanning ledge, built in table in pool, spillover spa, pebble radiance, Pentair Mastertemp 400K BTU heater, Blue Square Q360 infloor cleaner, VS2050 pump, auto leveler, Pentair easytouch 4 with wireless controller, Pentair 420 filter, custom natural gas firepit with cobalt glass.

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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    Thanks again for the fast replies!
    15,000 gal. Free Form IG PebbleTec Pool, 50sqft Oval Spa with 24" Spill Over, 2 Crystal Foam Jets on Tanning Ledge
    Pentair 2HP, Pentair DE Filter, Aquapure SWCG, Jandy iAqualink System
    Pentair 400K BTU Heater, TF-100 Test Kit
    Pool build: new-pool-build-in-tampa-fl-updated-3-25-t54884.html

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    techgirl's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    Post once you have your results, I kind of wish I'd just kept a sheet of paper and recorded start/end/temps etc.
    Inground 12500 gallon 96 foot perimeter, 24 by 24 pool (6 by 24 of which is a "wet deck" or tanning ledge), intellibrite in spa and pool, 2 pentair LED bubblers in tanning ledge, built in table in pool, spillover spa, pebble radiance, Pentair Mastertemp 400K BTU heater, Blue Square Q360 infloor cleaner, VS2050 pump, auto leveler, Pentair easytouch 4 with wireless controller, Pentair 420 filter, custom natural gas firepit with cobalt glass.

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    Heating has Started:

    Ill Keep track here for reference.

    Gas Tank: 75% (80% is full at 96 gallons of LP)
    Start time: 1:00pm EST
    Start Temp: 73 through iAqualink, 68 from cheap pool thermometer, and 70 on Heater display
    15,000 gal. Free Form IG PebbleTec Pool, 50sqft Oval Spa with 24" Spill Over, 2 Crystal Foam Jets on Tanning Ledge
    Pentair 2HP, Pentair DE Filter, Aquapure SWCG, Jandy iAqualink System
    Pentair 400K BTU Heater, TF-100 Test Kit
    Pool build: new-pool-build-in-tampa-fl-updated-3-25-t54884.html

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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    You have started your experiment, but you might want some of this info.

    1. I run a small amount of water to the spa all the time so it overflows with a trickle. If you can't do this, then isolate the spa and heat the pool only. You can always put the pool in spa mode tomorrow and heat the spa in a short amount of time.

    2. Depends on what temp you want to reach. In your case, a six to eight hour run should be fine for most.

    3. My guess is that you will lose a good 5 degrees over night. You might experiment with one of the liquid blankets tonight to retain some of the heat.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    Thanks ping!

    2:00PM (Duration: 1 Hour)

    Gas Tank: 72% Full
    iAqualink Temp: 75
    Pool Thermometer: 71
    Heater Temp: 71

    Equipment adjustments made:
    Turned main return valve wide open (reduced flow to spa)
    Closed 3 out 6 jets in the spa (this might have just increased flow to the 3 remaining jets)

    Options left:
    Completely isolate pool from spa by adjusting Jandy Actuator
    15,000 gal. Free Form IG PebbleTec Pool, 50sqft Oval Spa with 24" Spill Over, 2 Crystal Foam Jets on Tanning Ledge
    Pentair 2HP, Pentair DE Filter, Aquapure SWCG, Jandy iAqualink System
    Pentair 400K BTU Heater, TF-100 Test Kit
    Pool build: new-pool-build-in-tampa-fl-updated-3-25-t54884.html

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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    What's the point of not heating the spa as well?

    Here is what I do and based on your system and features this may or may not help you. If we are planing an event or heating the pool for the weekend I basically run the system 24 hours at 45% pump speed. This uses like 145 watts so almost nothing. (this is not much different than my standard summer schedule anyway.) I then set the system so when the heater is on the pump speed is 90%. This does a couple of things.
    - keeps the water curculating.
    - allows the system to always know the current water temp.
    - only kicks up the pump speed when the pool temp drops below the set temp since the heater kicks on (we usually heat it to 85)
    - uses the minimum amount of electricity when not heating the pool.
    - keeps the pool at a constant temp all weekend.
    21,000 gallon pool w/spa, Pebble Sheen, Hayward EcoStar variable speed filter pump, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 400FDN Heater, Stenner pump with 15 gallon tank, Clear O3 ozone system, Hayward Goldline PS-8 controller, Hayward 6060 cleaner pump, Polaris 280 cleaner, Hayward EcoStar variable speed water feature pump.

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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    3:00pm (2 Hours):

    Gas Tank: 68% Full
    iAqualink Temp: 77
    Pool Thermometer: 73
    Heater Temp: 74

    Thanks Cajun. I am running the pump at 'high' speed right now. I have a 2-speed pump. I usually don't use the low speed except during spa mode to not have the jets run full blast. Unless I am mistaken if I run the heater consistently I would burn through a full tank in 21 hours.

    I assume my iAqualink thermometer/sensor needs to be adjusted a bit...
    15,000 gal. Free Form IG PebbleTec Pool, 50sqft Oval Spa with 24" Spill Over, 2 Crystal Foam Jets on Tanning Ledge
    Pentair 2HP, Pentair DE Filter, Aquapure SWCG, Jandy iAqualink System
    Pentair 400K BTU Heater, TF-100 Test Kit
    Pool build: new-pool-build-in-tampa-fl-updated-3-25-t54884.html

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    techgirl's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    Quote Originally Posted by Cajun
    What's the point of not heating the spa as well?

    Here is what I do and based on your system and features this may or may not help you. If we are planing an event or heating the pool for the weekend I basically run the system 24 hours at 45% pump speed. This uses like 145 watts so almost nothing. (this is not much different than my standard summer schedule anyway.) I then set the system so when the heater is on the pump speed is 90%. This does a couple of things.
    - keeps the water curculating.
    - allows the system to always know the current water temp.
    - only kicks up the pump speed when the pool temp drops below the set temp since the heater kicks on (we usually heat it to 85)
    - uses the minimum amount of electricity when not heating the pool.
    - keeps the pool at a constant temp all weekend.
    I may have misunderstood my pool builder but I was under the assumption that it was better to run the heater when the pump was on low speed (I kind of recall it being something about the heating of water being more efficient if the water was flowing through the pump at lower speed). I'm wondering if you can help me understand what the rational is using the heater at high speed (I'm only two weeks into this so what I don't know about pools could fill my pool ).
    Inground 12500 gallon 96 foot perimeter, 24 by 24 pool (6 by 24 of which is a "wet deck" or tanning ledge), intellibrite in spa and pool, 2 pentair LED bubblers in tanning ledge, built in table in pool, spillover spa, pebble radiance, Pentair Mastertemp 400K BTU heater, Blue Square Q360 infloor cleaner, VS2050 pump, auto leveler, Pentair easytouch 4 with wireless controller, Pentair 420 filter, custom natural gas firepit with cobalt glass.

  17. Back To Top    #17
    techgirl's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    Quote Originally Posted by DJP1812
    3:00pm (2 Hours):

    Gas Tank: 68% Full
    iAqualink Temp: 77
    Pool Thermometer: 73
    Heater Temp: 74

    Thanks Cajun. I am running the pump at 'high' speed right now. I have a 2-speed pump. I usually don't use the low speed except during spa mode to not have the jets run full blast. Unless I am mistaken if I run the heater consistently I would burn through a full tank in 21 hours.

    I assume my iAqualink thermometer/sensor needs to be adjusted a bit...
    I second the suggestion above to get the "liquid solar cover" to retain the heat and maybe not run the heater all night but start it again in the morning so you have it heated for the party but sufficient LP to keep it warm if the air temp is cooler.
    Inground 12500 gallon 96 foot perimeter, 24 by 24 pool (6 by 24 of which is a "wet deck" or tanning ledge), intellibrite in spa and pool, 2 pentair LED bubblers in tanning ledge, built in table in pool, spillover spa, pebble radiance, Pentair Mastertemp 400K BTU heater, Blue Square Q360 infloor cleaner, VS2050 pump, auto leveler, Pentair easytouch 4 with wireless controller, Pentair 420 filter, custom natural gas firepit with cobalt glass.

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    I'm also curious about the speeds for optimal healting.

    Techgirl - Have you used the liquid cover? I've heard it might mess with sensors and such. I also have a SWG if that matters. I'm going to get my water tested later today so I can pick it up.

    Thanks.
    15,000 gal. Free Form IG PebbleTec Pool, 50sqft Oval Spa with 24" Spill Over, 2 Crystal Foam Jets on Tanning Ledge
    Pentair 2HP, Pentair DE Filter, Aquapure SWCG, Jandy iAqualink System
    Pentair 400K BTU Heater, TF-100 Test Kit
    Pool build: new-pool-build-in-tampa-fl-updated-3-25-t54884.html

  19. Back To Top    #19
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    Quote Originally Posted by DJP1812
    I'm also curious about the speeds for optimal healting.
    High flow rates are more efficient for heating than low flow rates. Here is a recent thread discussing it: http://www.troublefreepool.com/heati...mp-t57023.html
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: New Pool - First Time Heating

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Quote Originally Posted by DJP1812
    I'm also curious about the speeds for optimal healting.
    High flow rates are more efficient for heating than low flow rates. Here is a recent thread discussing it: http://www.troublefreepool.com/heati...mp-t57023.html
    Thanks for the link.
    15,000 gal. Free Form IG PebbleTec Pool, 50sqft Oval Spa with 24" Spill Over, 2 Crystal Foam Jets on Tanning Ledge
    Pentair 2HP, Pentair DE Filter, Aquapure SWCG, Jandy iAqualink System
    Pentair 400K BTU Heater, TF-100 Test Kit
    Pool build: new-pool-build-in-tampa-fl-updated-3-25-t54884.html

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