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Thread: HELP - CYA Keeps Climbing

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    HELP - CYA Keeps Climbing

    FC 3.1
    CC 3.1
    PH 7.5
    TA 109
    CH 209
    CYA 75
    Borates 50

    Water is beautiful and sparkly; however, I do have to add acid every other day. CYA was at 112, did a large backwash on 4/1 and got it down - test results are from today. We use 3" BioGuard Silk Tabs. Pool store had me buy ProTeam 3" Pure Tabs as they are supposed to contain less CYA - Is this true b/c it's all Trichlor? Don't want to drain water as it is very expensive - avg mo bill in winter is $200, double that in summer. Can I use Clorox Bleach for the next couple of months to maintain chlorine and allow CYA to drop through backwashing/rain/splash-out? How can I get my CYA back down to 40ppm without having to drain half my pool? Once it's down, how do I prevent it from rising again? Our pool is only 6mo old. I don't want to drain it every 6mo's to keep CYA in check. How do I stop it from constantly climbing?
    20K gal, IG Pebble Sheen, IntelliFlo VS 3HP, 60sqft DE Plus 150gpm, Completed 10/2012, 320 Chlorinator (don't use), Del Eclipse 2 Ozone Gen w/MDV, Pentair Legend Platinum Cleaner, Pentair Mastertemp 400K BTU Nat.Gas Heater, 1.5HP WisperFlo Pump for: 4 Weepers, 2 Bubblers, 3 Aerators, 12" Raised Spa w/8' Neg Edge Spillway.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: HELP - CYA Keeps Climbing

    Quote Originally Posted by AmyT
    FC 3.1
    CC 3.1
    PH 7.5
    TA 109
    CH 209
    CYA 75
    Borates 50

    Water is beautiful and sparkly; however, I do have to add acid every other day. CYA was at 112, did a large backwash on 4/1 and got it down - test results are from today. We use 3" BioGuard Silk Tabs. Pool store had me buy ProTeam 3" Pure Tabs as they are supposed to contain less CYA - Is this true b/c it's all Trichlor? Don't want to drain water as it is very expensive - avg mo bill in winter is $200, double that in summer. Can I use Clorox Bleach for the next couple of months to maintain chlorine and allow CYA to drop through backwashing/rain/splash-out? How can I get my CYA back down to 40ppm without having to drain half my pool? Once it's down, how do I prevent it from rising again? Our pool is only 6mo old. I don't want to drain it every 6mo's to keep CYA in check. How do I stop it from constantly climbing?
    Use liquid bleach.

    You've been pool-stored. Those ProTeam 3" Pure Tabs are 99% trichlor. You're going to keep adding CYA every time you add another puck. Trichlor is trichlor is trichlor. There's no way around it. It would be like saying one brand of salt has lower sodium than another. It can't.

    Also, I think you misread the test, because you probably don't have 3.1 CC. At least, I hope you don't. As an aside, 3.1 FC is too low for 75 CYA. However, 75 CYA is easily manageable if you have a FAS-DPD test kit. People who live in places like Phoenix and Las Vegas do it regularly. They need the extra protection from the heat and sun.

    If you haven't started yet, I suggest you start reading Pool School.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: HELP - CYA Keeps Climbing

    If you want to keep CYA in check use liquid chlorine / bleach. TriChlor and Dichlor both add CYA as well as Chlorine , Cal-Hypo adds Calcium as well as Chlorine and since your CH is already 209 that is probably not a good idea either.

    Please don't take this wrong, but if you want a trouble free pool, stop getting advice from pool stores and read pool school (link in the upper right corner) a couple of times.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: HELP - CYA Keeps Climbing

    Others have already commented, but here is my take...

    Quote Originally Posted by AmyT
    We use 3" BioGuard Silk Tabs. Pool store had me buy ProTeam 3" Pure Tabs as they are supposed to contain less CYA - Is this true b/c it's all Trichlor?
    They are both trichlor, with the proteam tabs having a slightly higher amount of chlorine and cya per weight. So basically the pool store is clueless.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmyT
    Can I use Clorox Bleach for the next couple of months to maintain chlorine and allow CYA to drop through backwashing/rain/splash-out?
    You can and should use bleach/liquid chlorine. It is likely that you will not be able to significantly reduce your cya since to get to 50 ppm, you will need to replace 1/3 of your pool water. With that said, 75 ppm cya is not unmanageable. Just make sure you keep your FC level up appropriately. Use poolcalculator.com for the appropriate level.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmyT
    I don't want to drain it every 6mo's to keep CYA in check. How do I stop it from constantly climbing?
    It sounds like you already know , stop using the tabs. See: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-..._chlorine_pool
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: HELP - CYA Keeps Climbing

    As everyone said, you have to stop using the tabs. Another good suggestion is to get a good test kit. Pool store tests are horribly inaccurate. We recommend the K-2006 or TF-100 from tftestkits.net.
    John
    7 year old ~13,500 gal 24' AGP with 1.5 hp Proline pump, 150 sqft Pleatco cartridge, filled with well water with pH of about 4.5.
    Wanda the Whale pool vacuum, home made heater, Taylor K-2006
    Cloudy Pool? 1) Order test kit. 2) Follow SLAM
    New to TFPC? Read Pool School a few times, then post questions. PoolMath will help with chemical additions.

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    Re: HELP - CYA Keeps Climbing

    Thanks for all the advice. TODAY I am returning the new tabs the pool store sold me yesterday. I even argued with her that these tabs had stabilizer in them, but she said no - "they are pure chlorine!" CRAZY!!!! I told her that my understanding was that all trichlor and dichlor had stabilizer and that I needed something else without stabilizer. They really don't know what they are talking about. I only go to keep my Pebble Sheen warranty valid - I have to have records showing that my water is tested once a month by a pool store.

    Yes, I did mis-quote the pool store's chemical results. Their test showed I have a CC of ZERO. They list it as Total Chlorine and Free Chlorine; because they are the same number, I have a CC of 0.

    I do have a BioGuard 1200V test kit and AquaCheck 7 test strips (both free from the builder), but I have to match colors and don't feel that either is very accurate. I will be purchasing a better kit - Thanks for the website and suggestions.

    Turned my chlorinator off and added bleach last night according to The Pool Calculator. Tested my FC this morning and it looks like it's at least 10 with my kits, so hopefully by FC is high enough considering my CYA levels.

    Re-read Pool School last night. Nothing was mentioned about oxygen shocking to burn-off chloramines. From what I gathered, bleach will do this, so does that mean I will never need to oxygen shock? Obviously I will use up what I have (ProTeam Shock & Swim), but it should save me money if I don't have to buy it. I also use Jack's Magic Magenta Stuff (for our well water) and ProTeam Microfloc Clarifier when the water needs polishing. I am OK with these, right? Do we need to purchase Natural Enzymes to address oils in the water as the pool store recommends? I would assume not since Pool School didn't mention it?

    Thanks again for all the great advice!!!!
    20K gal, IG Pebble Sheen, IntelliFlo VS 3HP, 60sqft DE Plus 150gpm, Completed 10/2012, 320 Chlorinator (don't use), Del Eclipse 2 Ozone Gen w/MDV, Pentair Legend Platinum Cleaner, Pentair Mastertemp 400K BTU Nat.Gas Heater, 1.5HP WisperFlo Pump for: 4 Weepers, 2 Bubblers, 3 Aerators, 12" Raised Spa w/8' Neg Edge Spillway.

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: HELP - CYA Keeps Climbing

    I assume you are referring to MPS based shock products when you refer to oxygen shocking, the general answer is they are not needed for outdoor pool with good sunlight exposure. I personally do not have a metal problem with my well water, but many forum members do use the Jacks products, and they seem highly recommended, as to clarifiers some people use them, some don't the general overall attitude is they are mostly not needed if you have proper filtration, but generally do no harm, also improper use is common. As to the natural enzyme stuff, I have never heard of it, so my guess is snake oil product.

    Ike

    p.s. be aware that MPS based shock does show up as CC on the FAS-DPD chlorine test and can do so for a couple of days, there is a special test kit that lets you measure the levels of MPS though, it is likely not worth the cost to most people, I have one since I have an indoor pool and occasionally use MPS
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: HELP - CYA Keeps Climbing

    Quote Originally Posted by AmyT
    Turned my chlorinator off and added bleach last night according to The Pool Calculator. Tested my FC this morning and it looks like it's at least 10 with my kits, so hopefully by FC is high enough considering my CYA levels.
    Since your cya level is high now, the FAS-DPD chlorine test will be extra important for you. The kit you are using (OTO chlorine test, the one that shows up as different shades of yellow I believe?) will not be accurate up at the FC levels you need to maintain for your higher cya level. If you haven't already seen it, the pool calculator has a section called suggested FC levels that takes into account the cya you plug into it. For your 75 ppm cya, you want to be between 6 and 11 ppm FC.

    Make sure if you haven't you read the test kits compared poolschool article (in my sig). I would suggest buying the TF-100 since it has the most reagents for the dollar.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmyT
    From what I gathered, bleach will do this, so does that mean I will never need to oxygen shock?
    Yes, bleach and sun.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmyT
    I also use Jack's Magic Magenta Stuff (for our well water)
    Have you had a metal's staining issue? Do you know the metals content in your well water? As Isaac-1 said, Jack's is one of our recommended sequestrants if you have a metals problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmyT
    ProTeam Microfloc Clarifier when the water needs polishing
    Skip this, if you maintain your pool chemistry properly, your water will be crystal clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmyT
    Do we need to purchase Natural Enzymes to address oils in the water as the pool store recommends? I would assume not since Pool School didn't mention it?
    Your assumption is right, most likely the enzymes won't be needed, again with the assumption you now are maintaining proper pool chemistry.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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