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Thread: AGP winter damage ?

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    AGP winter damage ?

    I live in Maine we got tons of snow this year ! One storm alone dumped 3 feet on us !
    I have a 24x52 atlantic pool about 5 years old .
    I suffered ice damage this year and now need to replace the liner at the very least . The water level is about a foot below where I left it when I closed it in the fall . The metal side walls bowed in a little. I see no real damage I have released the cover and I think I should be good until all the snow and ice melts .
    Now on to my questions . The pool company ( not the ones who put it in ) are telling me to take it all down and resurface the base put all the legs on patio blocks ,place a foam base ( bottom and sides )
    Replace liner and this thing will be bullet proof . ( at a cost of about 2500.00 )
    Does this make sense ? I know plenty of pools without patio blocks .
    A little background the original pool was installed in summer 2008 ( collapsed the first year ) I got a replacement ( that's a long story ) pool company blames installer installer blames pool company ect.
    Had a different company install the 2nd pool ( just never seemed right ! ) anyways fast forward to now . I don't want to keep throwing money at this . What am I missing what should I be asking ?
    Any input would be great ! Sorry. So long
    16x32 INDOOR pool 300lbs hayward sand filter 1.5 hayward pump

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    I never heard of an agp without patio blocks under the uprights. My pool has them. What are your uprights sitting on?


    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    Well I'm pretty sure I don't have any . I would be able to see them wouldn't I ?
    16x32 INDOOR pool 300lbs hayward sand filter 1.5 hayward pump

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    Not necessarily. What does your pool have around the bottom of it? Dirt,stone ? They usually have something around the bottom. Did you see this pool installed?


    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    I did see most of the install and I just don't recall seeing them be put down . It's a sand base . I did put crushed rock around the pool and I don't ever remember seeing them .
    16x32 INDOOR pool 300lbs hayward sand filter 1.5 hayward pump

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    cramar's Avatar
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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    Ya, the pool legs have to be installed on top of some kind of patio stone or you've got big problems, they may not be visible if under landscaping. If they weren't installed then it probably has to come down, I don't see how it can stay up longer term, perhaps this is why the installer recommended taking everything down.

    Some pics would help greatly, post some pics and people here will give you honest advice.

    Also, there's lots of videos online showing proper AGP installation, I recommend watching a few so you know what the process is, this way you'll have a better idea how to proceed and if any future installation is done properly.
    20' X 54" Sharkline Matrix Resin AGP, 9400 Gallons, Sta-Rite 1 HP Dynamo Pump, 150 lb Pentair Sand Filter, Gorilla Pad,
    Foam Cove, Taylor K-2006 kit, BBB method, 8'X20' Fafco Sunsaver Hard Plumb, DIY Fountain, Margarittaville Fiji


    My Build: one-man-one-pool-and-one-deck-agp-pics-t37172.html
    My Build 'To-Do' List for other DIY'ers: my-pool-build-list-t40249.html?hilit=list

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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    I will get some pictures when the snow melts ( no way to see the base ) I hope they are there ! I would think with 2 installers having put the pool up there one would have commented on the other if it is standard practice . Plus I'd be happy I'd save about a grand on the repair !
    16x32 INDOOR pool 300lbs hayward sand filter 1.5 hayward pump

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    I hope they are there too. That'll save you a lot of trouble. Can you dig out some of the snow to take a peek ?


    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    That will be the plan ! I should just be able to pull off the base cap and see them ? Also the new pool company is saying I should just skip putting on the winter cover from here on out ? Makes sense ? They are telling me this is more trouble than it's worth ?
    16x32 INDOOR pool 300lbs hayward sand filter 1.5 hayward pump

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    If there is patio blocks there you will be able to see them. I don't understand what the pool company means about the winter cover being more trouble than its worth. I use mine with no trouble. I'm not agreeing with everything the pool company is saying.


    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    What happened with the first pool, why did it collapse ?


    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    First pool was due to a liner failure ( pool just emptied very fast ) causing wall to fold in half . This is where everyone blamed everyone else . The pool company gave in and I got a new pool ( Taupe Harvest by Atlantic pools )
    I honestly don't beleive the first pool failure was the installers fault . They seemed to have their act together and had the propper equipment .( bobcats ,dump truck ,laser level ect. )
    I know the toys don't make the job but you could tell they had done this a 1000 times before .
    Now the secound install was like watching the 3 stooges ! But this is who the pool company recommended to put it in and if I used them they agreed to pay half the install cost .
    16x32 INDOOR pool 300lbs hayward sand filter 1.5 hayward pump

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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    On the subject of the winter cover . I installed and closed 100% per their instructions pillow and all .
    The new pool company says they never cover their display models and have never had a problem . Yes more cleaning out in the spring but the pool itself will not suffer any structure issues if I do it this way .
    A little background on me I have ran an operated inground pools for over 20 years ( I am by no means an expert ) most I have learned from trial and error ! But this AGP is a whole other animal !
    I never have any chemical issues or at least none I haven't been able to correct .
    16x32 INDOOR pool 300lbs hayward sand filter 1.5 hayward pump

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    cramar's Avatar
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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    From what I understand on the matter I don't think the winter cover matters at this point, things are warming up anyways so I'd just make sure the winter cover has some give to it (not cinched up really tight) and wait to open.

    Hard to provide good advice without pics but I have seen another thread where the pool wall buckled inward a bit from winter damage, I can't recall why that happened but I'm pretty sure the owner got the wall pushed back out without a problem
    20' X 54" Sharkline Matrix Resin AGP, 9400 Gallons, Sta-Rite 1 HP Dynamo Pump, 150 lb Pentair Sand Filter, Gorilla Pad,
    Foam Cove, Taylor K-2006 kit, BBB method, 8'X20' Fafco Sunsaver Hard Plumb, DIY Fountain, Margarittaville Fiji


    My Build: one-man-one-pool-and-one-deck-agp-pics-t37172.html
    My Build 'To-Do' List for other DIY'ers: my-pool-build-list-t40249.html?hilit=list

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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    PS, I almost bought an Aqualeader pool and I recalled from reading their manual that they say install the pool right on prepared soil and recommend on top of a base of crushed stone if in a location with frost, bottom line is the manufacturer says no patio stones.
    I just found that manual and sure enough that's how they recommend installing, so perhaps that's the method your installer used, gotta say that pretty much everything else I've ever seen indicated to put patio stones under each post.

    Regardless, if you can get some pics (even if you have to wait for some snow to melt) it will help.
    20' X 54" Sharkline Matrix Resin AGP, 9400 Gallons, Sta-Rite 1 HP Dynamo Pump, 150 lb Pentair Sand Filter, Gorilla Pad,
    Foam Cove, Taylor K-2006 kit, BBB method, 8'X20' Fafco Sunsaver Hard Plumb, DIY Fountain, Margarittaville Fiji


    My Build: one-man-one-pool-and-one-deck-agp-pics-t37172.html
    My Build 'To-Do' List for other DIY'ers: my-pool-build-list-t40249.html?hilit=list

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    Re: AGP winter damage ?


    Here's the worst of it
    16x32 INDOOR pool 300lbs hayward sand filter 1.5 hayward pump

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    Re: AGP winter damage ?


    Here's a shot from the upper deck . Hard to tell but the snow is melted down like a bowl in the center
    Here's the inside there is a gap between the ice and the wall no water there at all !

    I tried to look for the pavers but ground is frozen so no luck
    I tried to wiggle the post but very little if any . Seems pretty solid !
    16x32 INDOOR pool 300lbs hayward sand filter 1.5 hayward pump

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    cramar's Avatar
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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    Just floating out ideas, do you think there's something in the ground that is heaving?
    In my old house I built a deck and, unknown to me at the time, there must have been come **** previously buried on my site and every spring the corner of the deck would heave up several inches - very noticeable.

    If you've had problems in the past I wonder if something in the ground (ie: rock, fill, etc) is heaving. It may be a good idea to just leave it for a bit and see how it reacts to warmer weather, it *could* go back down and you may be able to get the wall pushed back out.
    Also wonder if that particular spot is perhaps not level from the install, perhaps a high spot causing the buckle.

    Back to the original post, what ever ends up happening you certainly don't need the foam floor and walls, those are completely optional, sounds like the guy is trying to get that one by you.

    I guess another thing to figure out is how the water went down.
    20' X 54" Sharkline Matrix Resin AGP, 9400 Gallons, Sta-Rite 1 HP Dynamo Pump, 150 lb Pentair Sand Filter, Gorilla Pad,
    Foam Cove, Taylor K-2006 kit, BBB method, 8'X20' Fafco Sunsaver Hard Plumb, DIY Fountain, Margarittaville Fiji


    My Build: one-man-one-pool-and-one-deck-agp-pics-t37172.html
    My Build 'To-Do' List for other DIY'ers: my-pool-build-list-t40249.html?hilit=list

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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    The bow is behined where the skimmer is so I know I have a fair amount of splash out there and when in the pool I feel a low spot to one side of the skimmer ( like the base washed away ) I do Beleive I have a draining issue . The pool sits on the lower side of the property and everything runs that way . So I think some type of French drain on the high side is in order !
    Is the bowing bad ? Can it be fixed ? Or am I looking at a new wall ?
    I looked at the manual online and the pavers are optional . But with how they are placed I might never be able to see them until the liner is out .
    With the water loss I'm think inking leak why else would I have that gap all the way around the pool ?
    I know I need to Waite and see how things settle but that's the worst part ! Not being able to do anything !
    16x32 INDOOR pool 300lbs hayward sand filter 1.5 hayward pump

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    cramar's Avatar
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    Re: AGP winter damage ?

    Personally I'd wait for warmer weather and then try to get the dent out and then go from there, I think getting the dent out is worth a shot anyways.
    Maybe then you can pull part of the liner back and investigate the cove as well, if there's a leak then water should drain down to that leak, if its at the cove all your water will drain.

    I don't think there's much choice for now other than waiting until everything is thawed out, including the ground.
    Perhaps you should put a level on each of the rails and document how everthing looks while it's still frozen and then do that again when the ground is fully thawed, maybe those numbers change and illustrate a heave, or maybe they show a consistent slump.

    The main thing that needs to be figured out is why this happened, that last thing you want to do is pay for a new wall and then it happens again.
    20' X 54" Sharkline Matrix Resin AGP, 9400 Gallons, Sta-Rite 1 HP Dynamo Pump, 150 lb Pentair Sand Filter, Gorilla Pad,
    Foam Cove, Taylor K-2006 kit, BBB method, 8'X20' Fafco Sunsaver Hard Plumb, DIY Fountain, Margarittaville Fiji


    My Build: one-man-one-pool-and-one-deck-agp-pics-t37172.html
    My Build 'To-Do' List for other DIY'ers: my-pool-build-list-t40249.html?hilit=list

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