Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: foundation from natural chemistry

  1. Back To Top    #1

    foundation from natural chemistry

    Has anybody tried this product to add borates? They suggest adding 5lbs per 6000 gallons. I dont know but that doesn't sound like it would be enough to get to 50ppm.

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: foundation from natural chemistry

    The MSDS shows that the product is 60-100% Boric Acid, 5-10% Citric Acid and 1-5% Lanthanum Sulfate. The citric acid is usually used as a metal stain remover, but when chlorine reacts with it then it usually forms a lot of chloroform (a trihalomethane, THM, though not one of concern). The Lanthanum Sulfate is a phosphate remover. Usually Natural Chemistry products with phosphate removers also have clarifiers in them and I'll bet that's the case here as well since that isn't needed to be listed in the MSDS (though their instructions say that some cloudiness may occur in some pools).

    If it were pure boric acid, then 5 pounds per 6000 gallons would only be 17.5 ppm Borates. Most boric acid or tetraborate products dose to at least 30 ppm and up to 50 ppm so I'm not sure why their directions are for a lot less. Maybe it's because they say to add it once a year so it might get up to a long-term 35 ppm or so before a 50% water dilution every winter.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: foundation from natural chemistry

    Great info thanks!

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Re: foundation from natural chemistry

    So i spoke with a natural chemistry rep today. He assured me that adding foundation at 5lbs per 5,000 (his suggestion, bucket says 6000) will get me to 30 ppm borates. I will be testing tomorrow to check whether or not this is accurate.

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: foundation from natural chemistry

    He's a liar (well, that assumes he knows the truth -- he might just be mistaken). If the product were pure boric acid, then 5 pounds in 5000 gallons would give 21 ppm borates while if it were sodium tetraborate pentahydrate it would be 18 ppm and 20 Mule Team Borax (sodium tetraborate decahydrate) would be 14 ppm.

    Perhaps you can show him the best case math with the product assumed to be 100% boric acid, B(OH)3, which has a molecular weight of 61.83 g/mole while Boron, B, which is how borates are measured has a molecular weight of 10.81 g/mole. 5 pounds is 2268 grams and 5000 gallons is 18927 liters so we have:

    (2268 grams) * (1000 mg/g) * (10.81/61.83 boron to boric acid) / (18927 liters) = 21 mg/L (ppm)

    The test strips aren't accurate enough for you to determine whether you've got 20 or 30 ppm borates -- that's too close -- but the math does not lie.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  6. Back To Top    #6
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: foundation from natural chemistry

    You can find boric acid for significantly less money elsewhere. Also, we don't recommend products that combine several chemicals that serve different purposes into one product. They make it impossible to get the dosing right on all the different things you are adding.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •