Another review of my equipment pad plumbing

[ssgumby]

I got this idea from another poster here and used it to mock up my plans. Does this layout seem reasonable? Anyplace else unions would be nice to make life easier?

The heater will come later, but im plumbing for it now.

Not the best drawing in the world, but hope it gets the idea across

 

[jblizzle]

How big is that pic? Took a while to download.

First a note on the 3-ways, it is usually best to have the common pipe be the middle of the valve. This gives you better control of the flow. None of the ones in your drawing are drawn that way.

Does you pump use unions to connect the suction and return pipes? If so, the union between the pump and filter is not really needed.
Does the SWG connect with unions (the Hayward does), so are you suggesting adding additional unions around the cell? You can buy blanks that allow you to put in a straight pipe instead of the cell.

I would recommend using pool valves and not the ball valves you seem to indicate on the heater loop. You could use a 3-way at the junction TO Heater and then have a check valve on the From Heater. Is it a gas/electric heater or solar? As the setup will be different.

For the returns, I think what you show would work. A 3-way to select between returns and water features and then another 3-way to select deck or waterfall. Again, turn the valves so the water enters the middle port. An alternative would be to use 3 2-way valves, but that may not help if you are going to actuate any of the valves.

Note the P4 (I am still trying to decide P4 vs PS4) will control 3 valves. By default valves 1 and 2 are slaved together to select pool vs. spa. You can modify the valve controls to be tied to the AUX 1 and AUX 2 relays, which then would allow you to control all 3 valves ... although it does not look like you need to do this. Realize though that Valve 3 can NOT be manual toggled by pushing a button. If you have any questions about this, I am currently reading and trying to understand if the P4 is going to work for me and we can discuss.

 

[ssgumby]

How big is that pic? Took a while to download.

It is a bit big (2M), ill try to reduce it.

First a note on the 3-ways, it is usually best to have the common pipe be the middle of the valve. This gives you better control of the flow. None of the ones in your drawing are drawn that way.

Duly noted, I think it was just easier drawing it this way.

Does you pump use unions to connect the suction and return pipes? If so, the union between the pump and filter is not really needed.

Im not 100% sure, ill have to check

Does the SWG connect with unions (the Hayward does), so are you suggesting adding additional unions around the cell? You can buy blanks that allow you to put in a straight pipe instead of the cell.

No, not additional unions, just the cell unioned in like normal.

I would recommend using pool valves and not the ball valves you seem to indicate on the heater loop. You could use a 3-way at the junction TO Heater and then have a check valve on the From Heater. Is it a gas/electric heater or solar? As the setup will be different.

As for the valves, yes I am using Jandy 4716. The 3 Way at the junction is a great idea, thanks! Whats the purpose of the check valve in the from line though? It will be an electric heat pump.

Realize though that Valve 3 can NOT be manual toggled by pushing a button.

Im not understanding what you mean here. I think the controller I have will control the two two valves I have to allow me to switch between returns, deck jets and/or falls.


Thanks for the input!

 

[jasonknox]

I make catch some flack for this comment but I did not plumb my plumbing pad with any unions. I did not have experience with them and decided that I could add them if I ever needed to cut the pipe for some reason. It has been six year and I have not had to cut any pipe. There quite possibly may be a very valid reason to install them initially I could not think of it at the time I did mine.

 

[jblizzle]

I added some unions around my filter ... not really needed, although since the threaded insert to the multi-valve has a drip. I can open the union, tighten the fitting and then reconnect the union. They are really more useful for people who break down the equipment for winter storage or if you have a multi-valve that is on top of the filter that has to be removed to get inside.

The check valve after the heater would prevent the flow from trying to enter the heater backwards when the 3-way to the heater was turned off. BTW, I do not think your automation would actuate a valve to open the heater when it was going to be on. Really I am not too sure the best way to plumb this one. Many options would work.

My heater originally did not have any valve and all the flow went through it all the time. I was advised I could reduce the headloss by putting in a heater bypass for when I did not need the heater. When I re-did the pad I did not put the heater back in. But, I was planning to do just like your drawing. With 2 ball valves near the heater and a Jandy 2-way between the heater pipes like our drawing ... still may do this. You have to decide if you want to be able to stop all flow through the heater of just always leave some going through it.

The P4 will control 3 valves. Valve 1 and 2 are normally slaved together (suction & return) and would move when you hit the pool/spa button. There is no Valve 3 button on the control pad to manually press. As I understand it, there is an option to make Valve 1 and 2 move independently and controlled by the Aux 1 and Aux 2 buttons ... I think this requires the use of 2 of your 4 high voltage relays as well. You could "fake" it a little by making the controller think you have a pool/spa combo, but only hook the first 3-way up to Valve 1 and leave Valve 2 open. Then you could have it automatically turn this valve at some time or just push the pool/spa button to move that 1 valve. The 2nd valve would have to be hooked to Valve 3 (since you do not want it slaved to Valve 1). In the programming you can set times to activate this valve, but looking at your buttons, there is no valve 3 button, so you can not manual decide when to turn valve 3.

I am not getting a remote, so I figure, if I am going to have to walk to my equipment to push the buttons to change things, what is the point of actuating the valves ... I am already there, so I will just turn them myself. All I am looking to do is actuate a solar valve, so I could make that Valve 3, but then I can not easily manual over ride by pushing a button. So, I could make Valves 1 and 2 work off of Aux 1 and 2 relays and I could push the button to override ... BUT then I loose 2 of my 4 relays. Since I have a 2-speed pump, that would use the other 2 relays, leaving my none left for the pool light (don't care since the switch is by the house anyway) or any landscaping lights.

FYI, The PS4 controller which is an extra $250, adds control of a 4th valve AND there are more buttons which include overrides for all of the valve controllers.

Given my limited desires for actuation (really just want the SWG and solar controllers) I think I can get by with the P4, and might be able to control a water fall valve by making it my Spa. But, like I said, I am not spending another $500 just to have a remote control ... for money I will just walk over to the equipment to push buttons or move valves.

You just have to really think about what you want to accomplish with the automation.

 

[ssgumby]

Honestly, you hit the nail on the head with the automation. I felt the same way, if I am at the pad I could manually move the valves rather than needing actuators installed and hitting a button. The only upside I could see to having it tied in with actuator is maybe it would be easier for my 8 yr old to turn on/off jets via a button as opposed to turning a valve. Now that I typed that, perhaps I should NOT automate it or my jets will be running al the time ha ha.

Thanks for the insight into the check valve, that make perfect sense.

Also, if you have not yet gotten your P4, please contact Josh at saltwater pool guys. I think his info is in the contributors forum. He has been very helpful with pricing and general info on this system.

 

[jblizzle]

Still not sure about the check valve though. If the valve TO the Heater is closed, the water really can not flow into the heater the wrong way ... since it can not get out the other side that is closed.