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Thread: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

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    Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    So im new here and only a year into owning a pool. Last march i bought a house that had an inground 32k gallon lazy L pool. The problem I have had since last year is that I have a hard time getting the pump lid to seal and not suck in air. It is a Pentair Superflo 1.5hp pump. Ive replaced the seals and sometimes I can get it to seal up and sometimes i cant. I tried 2 new ones yesterday to no avail. I do not notice any damage to the lid or the lock. Ive cleaned everything up and even rotated everything. Leaks in different places. Im pulling whats left of my hair out. Does anyone have any tips or give me something to look for.
    32k gallon Inground lazy L with Vinyl Liner. Pentair Superflo 1.5hp pump with a sand filter. Liquid Chlorine

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    Welcome to TFP.

    Are you lubing the o-ring area well with pool lube? Not lubing it is the single biggest reason the lid doesn't seal.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    I had some difficulty with the same type of pump. Lube seemed to do the trick, although getting the lid screwed on correctly is not as easy as it sounds and I have to repeat a few times to get it right. Try the lube, and perseverence.
    Walnut Creek, CA. 18k gallon Pebble Sheen + 1.5k gallon IG spa, 1.5hp whisperflo main pump, Pentair clean and clear 420, Intellichlor IC20, Polaris 360 w/booster,Jandy lite 2 natural gas, plus solar with Heliomatic 5000 controller and 3/4 hp booster

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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    Yes i have lubed the orings. So far nothing seems to work. Im almost ready to just buy a new pump. Yes I know thats prob jumping the gun but man im tired of messing with it. Seems like a poor design to me though. Ill pull it off again later and relube it and clean it all up again. Crossing my fingers
    32k gallon Inground lazy L with Vinyl Liner. Pentair Superflo 1.5hp pump with a sand filter. Liquid Chlorine

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    Are you sure it's coming from the lid and not from the drain plugs or somewhere else?
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    When I turn off the pump I can see it burping out of the lid.
    32k gallon Inground lazy L with Vinyl Liner. Pentair Superflo 1.5hp pump with a sand filter. Liquid Chlorine

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    Sounds line it's not seating all the way against the lip of the basket. I'd take the lid out of the clamp ring and make sure there's not something in there. If all else fails you might try putting an o-ring above and below the lid in the clamp ring. Lube both if you do.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    Try laying a straight edge across the surfaces on the pump housing and the lid. Running a pump dry can cause warping that might interfere with the seal there.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    Quote Originally Posted by Sack
    When I turn off the pump I can see it burping out of the lid.
    That doesn't mean you have a "leak" and it is fairly common in many pump lines.

    Many pumps do this because the lid is designed to seal better under suction than pressure. When the pump shuts off, a pressure wave sometimes will hit the pump basket. This causes a rapid increase in pressure and can force water out of the pump. This normally occurs on plumbing systems with higher than average suction head (i.e. small plumbing and/or a suction side cleaner).

    However, if you are seeing air in the pump basket, then yes that is an air leak but if it isn't a large amount, it shouldn't be a problem. Really, the only time air in the pump basket becomes a problem is when the pump loses prime and/or pumping capacity which can be determined by a loss in filter pressure.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    Mas985---I didn't say it leaked. Its burping air out where it should be sealed. It also pushes the skimmer basket out of place. I then have to remove the lid and reprime the pump which is the agitating thing about it.The lid just isn't sealing correctly. So when the lid isn't sealing properly its sucking in air while its running causing air to spit out of the returns which I do not think is right considering it doesn't do this when the lid finally seals. But I think I finally got it at lunch. Only took another 45 min back and forth. It just seems like its a hit or miss.
    32k gallon Inground lazy L with Vinyl Liner. Pentair Superflo 1.5hp pump with a sand filter. Liquid Chlorine

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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT
    Try laying a straight edge across the surfaces on the pump housing and the lid. Running a pump dry can cause warping that might interfere with the seal there.
    Good idea. If that's the case I assume ill need a new pump?
    32k gallon Inground lazy L with Vinyl Liner. Pentair Superflo 1.5hp pump with a sand filter. Liquid Chlorine

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    You can buy just the basket and/or the lid if it's warped.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    Quote Originally Posted by Sack
    Mas985---I didn't say it leaked. Its burping air out where it should be sealed. It also pushes the skimmer basket out of place. I then have to remove the lid and reprime the pump which is the agitating thing about it.The lid just isn't sealing correctly.
    This could just semantics but if something isn't sealing, does it not leak?

    However, call it what you will, the air burping out of the pump lid does not mean that the lid is not sealing under normal operation. Pump lids are not made to seal very well when there is pressure. It just means that you have pressure built up, probably with air in the filter. This is what causes it to burp.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    Sack,

    Are you ABSOLUTELY positive the air is getting sucked in through the pump basket seal?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Quote Originally Posted by Sack
    Mas985---I didn't say it leaked. Its burping air out where it should be sealed. It also pushes the skimmer basket out of place. I then have to remove the lid and reprime the pump which is the agitating thing about it.The lid just isn't sealing correctly.
    This could just semantics but if something isn't sealing, does it not leak?

    However, call it what you will, the air burping out of the pump lid does not mean that the lid is not sealing under normal operation. Pump lids are not made to seal very well when there is pressure. It just means that you have pressure built up, probably with air in the filter. This is what causes it to burp.
    Once I get the pump going after a few minutes I can hear air sucking from around the lid. I can add a little water on top and watch it suck in to where it isn't sealed well. Which it doesn't do when I can actually get it to seal. I may just buy a new lid and lock and hope that solves my problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Sack,

    Are you ABSOLUTELY positive the air is getting sucked in through the pump basket seal?

    Yes. I guess no one has really had the constant issue that i'm having. I was just hoping it would be something simple that I wouldn't have to go buy more stuff.
    32k gallon Inground lazy L with Vinyl Liner. Pentair Superflo 1.5hp pump with a sand filter. Liquid Chlorine

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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    A cheap, quick possible fix is to replace the 0-ring. They can look just fine but not seal correctly.

    People have this issue ALL the time. It is the most common issue for suction side air leaks.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    Oops! Sorry! I overlooked that you had already replaced the 0-ring.

    So you have identified the source so it must be either the basket or the lid that has become warped and not allowing the 0-ring to seat properly. Those are the three components that make up that "connection" so it should be relatively easy to solve.

    Have you had an opportunity to check for warp with a straight edge like JohnT suggested?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Oops! Sorry! I overlooked that you had already replaced the 0-ring.

    So you have identified the source so it must be either the basket or the lid that has become warped and not allowing the 0-ring to seat properly. Those are the three components that make up that "connection" so it should be relatively easy to solve.

    Have you had an opportunity to check for warp with a straight edge like JohnT suggested?
    No not yet. I will if its still having the issue when i get home. if not im not touching it till I have too lol
    32k gallon Inground lazy L with Vinyl Liner. Pentair Superflo 1.5hp pump with a sand filter. Liquid Chlorine

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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    QUOTE: Bama Rambler .. "Are you sure it's coming from the lid and not from the drain plugs or somewhere else"?
    _______________________________________________

    Good point ... I had a similar problem with my pump ... The water would leak out during the night, so in the morning when the pump would start, the pump would cavitate and run dry (not sucking water).

    I am glad that with the pump cavitated, it didn't burn the pump up.

    The problem ... the drain plug on the bottom had a broken / cracked O-Ring. The faulty O-Ring would empty the pump and filter basket overnight when the pump was not running ... dry start in the morning.
    9,000 gal. in-ground concrete pool
    Sta-Rite Max-E-Pro pump and motor (1 HP)
    Pentair CC100 cartridge filter (100 sq ft)
    Zodiac MX8 suction pool cleaner

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    Re: Problem with Pool lid seal sucking air

    I figured I would give an update. Replaced the clear pump lid and its fixed. The other one was a lil worn I guess.
    32k gallon Inground lazy L with Vinyl Liner. Pentair Superflo 1.5hp pump with a sand filter. Liquid Chlorine

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