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Thread: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

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    Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    Thanks to all of you. Before registering I viewed this forum extensively. I am upgrading my pool to automation with pentair easytouch with intellichlor, intelliflow vs pump and intellichem. I have a 20,000 gallon pool, 2 suction lines each 2 inch and 3 returns each 1.5 inch, a tagelaus ta 50 sand filter and raypack natural gas heater.

    Some general questions.

    1) The retun line to my pool goes to 3 jets. It is 1.5 inch schedule 40 PVC and I can't change that. The multiport on my tagelus filter only accepts a 1.5 inch input fitting from the pump. I could probably tap off the multiport outflow with 2 inch pvc although it is set up with 1.5 inch pipe to my heater. Leaving the heater outflow I could do 2 inch pvc to the intellichlor, but it will eventually have to go back down to my 1.5 returns. Is there any benefit to adding 2 inch pvc where I can or should I just stick with 1.5 inch pvc throughout? The intellichlor can accept 2 inch pvc but I would have to adapt it to 1.5. I am also building a bypass around the intelliflow to to control flow.

    2) 50 amps is going to the load center. Should I have a GFCI at the home panel or individual GFCI's at the load center. Opinions would be appreciated. My original install had no GFCI's professionally done.

    3) The intellichlor manual recommends schedule 80 unions. Is this done? I have never seen it. I have only seen schedule 40 for pool plumbing. The manual said unions, not piping. What is a reasonable option?

    4) My Raypack heater has a line out for automation. 2 leads, one is +24v and the other is ground. Is the attachment point in the easytouch just an on/off switch and are these raypack leads ok for the easy touch. ? I could do a firemans switch option as well.

    5) I want to install a service disconnect before the easy touch load center. Leads from the home panel include two hot, one neutral and a ground. A standard 220v service disconnect is wired for two hot and a ground. Do I just pass through the neutral directly to the load center? (yes, a little knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing)

    6) Inside the easy touch with intellichlor is a circuit board for the intellichlor. It has 3 com ports, one of which is connected to the easy touch board. can I use these with or instead of a com port expansion panel ? It seems from my research that all comports are tied together.

    7) Lastly, the intellichem (which will likely cause me great pain), Is there a standard concentration of muriatic acid ? what is the correct concentration. I can find nothing about this in pentairs manuals.

    Many thanks to all who dare to help me.
    " A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
    19,000 gallon sylvan pool, Easytouch 2 4p automation, Screenlogic interface, Intelliflo VF 3050 pump, Intellichem with Intellichlor 40 chlorinator/Muriatic acid, Raypac millivolt natural gas heater.Polaris pool cleaner with booster pump.Coverstar automatic cover hydraulic mechanism with PCS cover. Wet edge Luna quartz finish 2016. Northeast climate.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    1) The more places you put 2" pipe the better. It doesn't matter if you can't do everywhere, each little bit helps. At the same time, it only helps a little, so don't go to extreme lengths to replace each little segment unless you are working on that area of plumbing anyway.

    2) The breaker in the main panel should be a regular breaker, and then there should be GFI breakers in each circuit in the sub-panel.

    3) Schedule 40 is fine, though many of the available unions are schedule 80 anyway. Most people just hard pipe things and skip the unions, but many other swear that unions are better.

    4) The automation system has a relay that should work just fine with 24 volts.

    5) Passing the neutral through should be fine.

    6) That is a preinstalled com port expansion panel. You can add a second expansion panel if you need to.

    7) Dilute the acid three or four to one with water. IE three or four times as much water as acid.

    I don't recommend using an IntelliChem with an outdoor residential pool. It tends to create more hassle than it helps.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    Thank you !! I appreciate your input. Yes, I know the intellichem will cause me pain...

    Appreciate your response and advice.

    Adam
    " A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
    19,000 gallon sylvan pool, Easytouch 2 4p automation, Screenlogic interface, Intelliflo VF 3050 pump, Intellichem with Intellichlor 40 chlorinator/Muriatic acid, Raypac millivolt natural gas heater.Polaris pool cleaner with booster pump.Coverstar automatic cover hydraulic mechanism with PCS cover. Wet edge Luna quartz finish 2016. Northeast climate.

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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    Jason,

    They recommend a bypass loop for the intellichem. How do I know what the flow is?
    " A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
    19,000 gallon sylvan pool, Easytouch 2 4p automation, Screenlogic interface, Intelliflo VF 3050 pump, Intellichem with Intellichlor 40 chlorinator/Muriatic acid, Raypac millivolt natural gas heater.Polaris pool cleaner with booster pump.Coverstar automatic cover hydraulic mechanism with PCS cover. Wet edge Luna quartz finish 2016. Northeast climate.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    Are you using the flow cell, or a separate bypass loop? Most people use the flow cell, which is what is pretty much assumed by the manual. The standard plumbing for the flow cell should work unless you have an in-floor cleaning system.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    I have the intellichlor 40 flow cell and a polaris cleaner with booster pump. The inflow for the booster will be after the flow cell.

    Thanks
    " A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
    19,000 gallon sylvan pool, Easytouch 2 4p automation, Screenlogic interface, Intelliflo VF 3050 pump, Intellichem with Intellichlor 40 chlorinator/Muriatic acid, Raypac millivolt natural gas heater.Polaris pool cleaner with booster pump.Coverstar automatic cover hydraulic mechanism with PCS cover. Wet edge Luna quartz finish 2016. Northeast climate.

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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    My bad, Yes the intellichem has a flow cell. I was talking about a bypass loop for the chlorine generator to maintain correct flow.

    Thanks
    " A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
    19,000 gallon sylvan pool, Easytouch 2 4p automation, Screenlogic interface, Intelliflo VF 3050 pump, Intellichem with Intellichlor 40 chlorinator/Muriatic acid, Raypac millivolt natural gas heater.Polaris pool cleaner with booster pump.Coverstar automatic cover hydraulic mechanism with PCS cover. Wet edge Luna quartz finish 2016. Northeast climate.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    It is very unlikely that you will need a bypass for the SWG. If your pump is 2 HP or more it is worth investigating further, but for a 1 or 1 1/2 HP pump you are safe without.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    Thanks for your reply jason.

    It is the intelliflow variable speed pump which can max out at 3hp but I hope never to run it that fast. Even if I build a flow bypass for the chlorinator how would I know the flow through the cell?

    another question.

    Usually my polaris inflow is after the heater but before the pool return. If I am succesful with the muriatic acid should that inflow go after the polaris inflow ? I would think it shold be at the last point in the plumbing.

    Thanks again

    Adam
    " A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
    19,000 gallon sylvan pool, Easytouch 2 4p automation, Screenlogic interface, Intelliflo VF 3050 pump, Intellichem with Intellichlor 40 chlorinator/Muriatic acid, Raypac millivolt natural gas heater.Polaris pool cleaner with booster pump.Coverstar automatic cover hydraulic mechanism with PCS cover. Wet edge Luna quartz finish 2016. Northeast climate.

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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    There is no practical way to know the exact flow rate, but you don't need to. If you do install a bypass you would install a spring loaded valve that automatically opens to let water through the bypass at the required flow rate.

    Ideally the acid input should be after the heater and the polaris but before the SWG. After the SWG is alright if required but before the heater is bad.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    Thanks again, Can you recommend a valve?

    why is acid before swg better?
    " A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
    19,000 gallon sylvan pool, Easytouch 2 4p automation, Screenlogic interface, Intelliflo VF 3050 pump, Intellichem with Intellichlor 40 chlorinator/Muriatic acid, Raypac millivolt natural gas heater.Polaris pool cleaner with booster pump.Coverstar automatic cover hydraulic mechanism with PCS cover. Wet edge Luna quartz finish 2016. Northeast climate.

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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    if I install a flow controll valve would it go before the swg limb or the bypasss limb ?
    " A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
    19,000 gallon sylvan pool, Easytouch 2 4p automation, Screenlogic interface, Intelliflo VF 3050 pump, Intellichem with Intellichlor 40 chlorinator/Muriatic acid, Raypac millivolt natural gas heater.Polaris pool cleaner with booster pump.Coverstar automatic cover hydraulic mechanism with PCS cover. Wet edge Luna quartz finish 2016. Northeast climate.

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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    Something like a 5 or 10 lb spring loaded check valve should be about right.

    The PH goes very high inside the SWG. Injecting acid before the cell lowers the odds of getting calcium scaling on the cell plates.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    Thanks that is a great tip about the swg
    " A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
    19,000 gallon sylvan pool, Easytouch 2 4p automation, Screenlogic interface, Intelliflo VF 3050 pump, Intellichem with Intellichlor 40 chlorinator/Muriatic acid, Raypac millivolt natural gas heater.Polaris pool cleaner with booster pump.Coverstar automatic cover hydraulic mechanism with PCS cover. Wet edge Luna quartz finish 2016. Northeast climate.

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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    Hello again Jason or others if you see this.

    My install is going very well. The load center and service disconnect are in. The wiring has never been more sound and secure. I have tuned up my Tagelus filter with new gaskets and am almost ready to redo my PVC piping. With the addition of the SWG and muriatic acid inflow I will be installing a jandy one way valve after the heater.

    Unfortunately I am still a bit confused about about regulating the flow rate through the intellichlor. I know a bypass loop can decrease the pressure if i open it, but is there a valve that maintains a constant gpm (please send a link ) if the flow is above 25 gpm? I assume this valve would be in the piping before the intellichlor. Will the easy touch figure this out for me and if so do I even need a bypass loop ? (yes I have a polaris with booster).

    Thanks again.

    Adam
    " A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
    19,000 gallon sylvan pool, Easytouch 2 4p automation, Screenlogic interface, Intelliflo VF 3050 pump, Intellichem with Intellichlor 40 chlorinator/Muriatic acid, Raypac millivolt natural gas heater.Polaris pool cleaner with booster pump.Coverstar automatic cover hydraulic mechanism with PCS cover. Wet edge Luna quartz finish 2016. Northeast climate.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    There is no possible reason for you to run the IntelliFlo pump at a high enough speed to possibly require a bypass for the SWG. The IntelliChlor is good up to over 80 GPM, which is more flow than I can imagine you using. Your filter is only spec'd for a max flow rate of 50 GPM, so you will damage the filter long before you have any problem with the SWG should you somehow turn the flow rate up too high.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Some general questions- upgrading to automation.

    Thanks jJason,

    So I will skip the bypass loop and the flow valve.
    " A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
    19,000 gallon sylvan pool, Easytouch 2 4p automation, Screenlogic interface, Intelliflo VF 3050 pump, Intellichem with Intellichlor 40 chlorinator/Muriatic acid, Raypac millivolt natural gas heater.Polaris pool cleaner with booster pump.Coverstar automatic cover hydraulic mechanism with PCS cover. Wet edge Luna quartz finish 2016. Northeast climate.

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