POOL CLARITY

[dolphin]

I dont have access to cellulose fiber filter aid. My pool supplier tells me using DE powder (he has heard and used this technique before) can change the nature of the media, making it rather sticky or guewy.
Using zeolite, if it isn't cleaned / backwashed properly will send all its sediment into the pool.
Fortunately for me, i took extensive precautions to backwash over and over until it came clean.

When i reported the cloudiness late last night, the next day today, in light of the day, it didn't appear half as bad as it appeared in the pool light at night.
And then, late in the day, more or less 24 hrs later, its just a little hazy so it is pulling all its fine sediment (whether it is remnants of zeolite or not), back into the filter.
I'm sweeping every hour or 2 to insure it wont settle to the bottom but instead into the filter.

Once the water is where it was 24 hours ago, virtually crystal clear, i will perform an intensive backwash with a heavy rinse....
....I dont want to take another chance blowing the stuff back into the pool again should air gets sucked into the lines again. This has happened to me before with regular sand and it think the phenomenon has happened again to me last night.

4 weeks ago, the water was pretty disgusting. You could not see the bottom and the water looked black!
So it has come a long way....
Even if there isn't any significant change in PSI, i still will do the backwash.
Only time will tell but i will keep the forum posted as to what my findings are

 

[dolphin]

i just vacuumed a 2nd time and swept the floor for the 8th time. The water is much much better. Not perfect but its getting there at a good pace. At this rate, tomorow morning it'll be clear.

Alot of variables appear to determine what makes the water clear:

1) chemicals - that point is established
2) level of disinfectant.
3) the type of water - minerals / metals etc..
4) what goes into (flies into) the water brought in by the wind. That point I am still looking into and not too decided on...
... I can sit by the poolside and watch the surface literally get contaminated by dust, hair, more dust and dust.
It's not too much of a problem because the skimmer sucks it all in. So when the breeze stops, the surface is pretty clean (like a miror).
But what I am not too decided on is: what happens to all that dust / debris that gets pulled into the filter??
I know the chlorine will work on it. It'll try to decompose it but do i need to keep a higher level of chlorine to do this or can the chlorine handle the new load of junk going into the skimmer day in day out at a level of 1 or 2 ppm ( given the CYA is zero for simplicity of this example)??

 

[dolphin]

My main concern or question is this:
Manufactures say: " a dirty filter filters better".
Should the filter remain dirty even though the PSI is well under 6 or 8?
Or should it be back washed to remove any trace of silt so that it doesn't accidentally belch out some of its trapped sediments should the system accidentally gulp big amounts of air??
Does anyone know the answer to this/??

 

[Smykowski]

If the filter is too dirty, the flow is restricted to the point where the filter is really, really inefficient. When the filter is backwashed and clean, small particles are actually pushed through the sand and back into the pool. A slightly dirty filter will do the best job of filtering.

Once you get everything under control with BBB, your time spent between backwashes gets very long. I backwashed about once a month last summer.

 

[duraleigh]

" a dirty filter filters better".

Mostly true but I don't believe it should be a guideline. Get your filter as clean as is practicable when you backwash.

Should the filter remain dirty even though the PSI is well under 6 or 8?

I don't understand the question. The rule we practice here is to clean the filter when you get a 25% ris in psi from the original clean psi. Is 6-8 psi your clean filter reading?

Or should it be back washed to remove any trace of silt so that it doesn't accidentally belch out some of its trapped sediments should the system accidentally gulp big amounts of air??

The filter should be backwashed to a very clean condition.....back to the original clean psi or close to it. If your pump is sucking air and putting it into the filter, you need to find that suction leak and fix it. If it is happening when you are priming, do you have a relief valve on the filter that will let most of the air out before it blows it through the returns?

 

[PAGirl]

Have you tried vacuuming to waste yet?

 

[dolphin]

not to waste, backwash. Kept vacuuming & sweeping in hoping it'll eventually pile up in the filter - which i guess it did, After 3 or 4 days the water was fine. I didnt want to keep all the sediments in the filter should the filter burp again, so i rigurously backwashed it out. I may not have the best filter since it is clean but at least i wont have to worry about the filter ejecting the odd blob of silt

 

[jblizzle]

Wait, did you vacuum while in backwash? That will put the dirt on the wrong side (bottom) of the sand bed. Then as soon as you go back to filter, all the dirt will blow back into the pool.

You should only ever vacuum on filter or waste settings.

Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short

 

[dolphin]

Oopps, i meant to say i vacuumed in filter mode ( of course ) but what i shouldve and meant to say is: Once all the sediments where put back into the filter ( the ones that burped out and made the water cloudy once again), and once the vacuuming is complete. Then i backwashed all of it out. So that there is no chance of any of that stuff spilling or disslodging back into the pool.
It's a little counter intuitive because " the dirtier the filter is, the better it works" but look what happened when some air got gulped in. Fortunatly, it only took 4 extra days to get it back to 98 % clear ( you have to look very hard around the drain cover and dark surrounding to see any halo or haze).

 

[dolphin]

to go back to the previous question: no, i havent vacuumed in backwash mode. It has been over a month now, the water did eventually clear up with no bather load.
From what i can observe throughout the 5 - 6 week period is this:
the first week the water had algae, pollen and dirt you could not see the bottom.
- using the 3 criteria must be met method recommended by TFP, i noticed the water slowly clearing up ( not overnight ). Bit by bit the sediments settled, most of them passing thru the filter some staying in the filter.
- after one of the criteria s was met, that being 'no loss or less then 1 ppm overnight has been met
- and that the 10 ppm normal shock level has and had been kept, all that remained was the clarity.
i had to keep 10 ppm until all or very very close to near perfect clarity had to be kept before i can let go of maintaining the shock level.
All i had to contained with where inorganic sediments which after sweeping it off the floor ( yes it made the water cloudy again but its just inorganic sediments).
Eventually it to got trapped in the filter ( took a while).
One thing i noticed which is curious:
- while the water was quite cloudy to almost clear, the chlorine must of worked on, like a human digesting food, erodes away the dead cells.
Although the dead cells are much to small for the filter the catch, just the friction of tumbling and being forced through the filter and the exposure to chlorine, must eventually erode or break the cell apart until it is completely gone.
- Since then, the water never got cloudy.
The only time if became cloudy afterwards is when i had 4 guest come over who had not washed . the water did become dirty looking.
Right away shock mode! kept it shocked for a little under a week and the water became crystal clear!
There is no residual or film or smell ( it smelled a little while the chlorine was busy oxydising the junk out).
Soon after, about a week now, the only smell the water has is a very light taste of baking soda and it feels great going in
Can you confirm the chemical process of what the chlorine is actually doing to all the organics? why the water clarifies ?
7,500 gal pool. 1/2 horse pump, Zeolite sand. I only use Chlorine, MA, Sodium bicarb and Calcium Chloride to balance my water. I do 'Chlorine-hop' to get the required Chemicals into the water i.e Cal hypo to get CH higher

 

[duraleigh]

while the water was quite cloudy to almost clear, the chlorine must of worked on, like a human digesting food, erodes away the dead cells.
Although the dead cells are much to small for the filter the catch, just the friction of tumbling and being forced through the filter and the exposure to chlorine, must eventually erode or break the cell apart until it is completely gone.

I agree. Keeping the pool at shock value speeds up the "disappearance" of the organic material. Some is caught by the filter, of course, but pools can be often difficult to clear when folks are tempted to let the FC go down too soon.

 

[dolphin]

I agree, this must be fully understood: what goes on during the shock process.
If one of the criteria isn't met, then whats still making the water cloudy is still consuming or, rather, the chlorine atoms are still busy attaching themselves to the not yet or not fully killed or dissolved yet.
One important note to remember, i got a little anxious in stopping the shock process when i thought the clarity was near good enough.
slowly but surely, the clarity slowly became worse...so ..
So yes, the 3 criterias must be met but the clarity has to become practically or 99% clear or it may all come back to cloudy again.
it takes alot of patients to get there. i didnt always have the pump running ( it never runs over night unless the water is a swamp).
The chlorine has to be given a chance to 'digest' all of the organics in the water.
To go from a swamp, almost black in color to crystal clear, virtually nothing on the floor, walls or in the column of water, took 4 weeks....
and on a 12hr by 24 hour/ 7 day week filtering.
I had a dirty dog and a kid jump in the pool thinking that it would ruin and make the water cloudy again but i got lucky, the water remained clear.
one thing to note... if i know no one will be using the pool, i'll usually keep the the CL level a few ppm's higher. if i know it will used with upcomming guest or friends then ill let it drop a few days before hand.
Then when they leave, bring it back up a little