help with restarting pool and replacing pump(s)

[twd000]

I bought a bank-owned 1977 property in Tucson, AZ. Has been vacant a year plus, which means the pool was "winterized" (drained and allowed to fill w/ rainwater and trash). I have about 2' of green water in the deep end. The plaster will eventually need to be replaced, but I'm hoping I can limp through 3-4 seasons before it is a necessity. I estimate 22,000 gallons, with a spillover hot tub (which I probably won't heat; just use as a kiddy pool). There are 12 black solar coils on the carport roof (single story)

Checking out the equipment, I have a sand filter of some sort, and two pumps. Larger one is 2 HP single-speed AO Smith, circa 1988. Smaller one is a Century 1081 3/4 HP unit. Not sure if the smaller one is for hot tub jets, or vacuum system, or ?

So my plan is to clean it out next weekend and fill er up, then start turning stuff on and see what I got. I plan to replace the main pump since the energy savings alone could be major. Not sure if I should look to replace smaller pump as well.

I have the recommended Taylor K-2006 testing kit so I'm armed and ready to do battle with chemistry.

questions:
1. how long can the pool sit full while I figure out my game plan and order/install pumps? Daytime highs are ~70, nighttime lows ~40, The old pump may work and allow me to circulate some bleach and start testing, but it might not start at all. I guess there is already algae on the deep end, so I will have to shock it to start anyway, and we're not in a great hurry to start swimming.

2. any possibility or advantage of replacing both pumps with a single unit? There are a lot of plumbing runs and I haven't figured out inlets and outlets yet.

3. what should I be looking for in a new pump? AZ banned single-speed retrofits, so it's two-speed or variable-speed. Electric rates are about $0.10 kWh. I have read some people saying to run low speed nearly round-the-clock rather than 8hrs on/16 hrs off to keep the algae at bay and improve filtering. The old pump was 2 HP, but I have no idea if it was sized correctly. I found some online calculations indicating I need 40 GPM for a 24 hr turnover. No idea how to estimate the pressure head, especially with the elevated solar coils and who-knows-what pipe diameter in all he various runs and connections. Do the variable speed pumps require new controller? I have mechanical timers now

 

[linen]

Welcome to tfp, twd000

Checking out the equipment, I have a sand filter of some sort, and two pumps. Larger one is 2 HP single-speed AO Smith, circa 1988. Smaller one is a Century 1081 3/4 HP unit. Not sure if the smaller one is for hot tub jets, or vacuum system, or ?

Most likely the 2 hp one is for the spa jets and the 3/4 is for the pool filtration/circulation. Post a picture of your equipment pad and we may be able to help more.

I have the recommended Taylor K-2006 testing kit so I'm armed and ready to do battle with chemistry.

1. how long can the pool sit full while I figure out my game plan and order/install pumps? Daytime highs are ~70, nighttime lows ~40, The old pump may work and allow me to circulate some bleach and start testing, but it might not start at all. I guess there is already algae on the deep end, so I will have to shock it to start anyway, and we're not in a great hurry to start swimming.

Most likely, algae will not grow fast at your current temperatures. If you have a cover that will help too. Good news is if it goes green we can help you fix it.

2. any possibility or advantage of replacing both pumps with a single unit? There are a lot of plumbing runs and I haven't figured out inlets and outlets yet.

Unless you are willing to buy a varialble speed pump, you will probably have to have two pumps. How many jets does the spa have and do you have any other water features? If you are not going to worry about the spa jets being strong (and don't have other water features), then you could probably run everything with the 3/4 hp pump.

3. what should I be looking for in a new pump?

Probably a 2-speed will be the most cost effective for the pool circulation...but as mentioned above, if you want one pump to do the spa with good jet action you would probably need a vs. I would wait and see what is working. You can turn on the pumps dry for a couple of seconds to see if the start.

 

[jblizzle]

Hey neighbor! Welcome to TFP!

Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Just over 15gpm it what is needed for a 24 hour turn over of 22,000 gallons. 40 gallons/minute x 60 minutes/hour x 24 hours/day is 57,600 gallons circulated.

Sent via Tapatalk...

 

[twd000]

Hey neighbor! Welcome to TFP!

Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short

thanks, neighbor! any tips for pool bliss in Tucson? what part of town are you in?

 

[twd000]

no other water features

I'll take some pictures tomorrow in the daylight and you can talk me through my options

 

[twd000]

 

[twd000]

there are 6 jets in the hot tub

 

[jblizzle]

Hey neighbor! Welcome to TFP!

Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short

thanks, neighbor! any tips for pool bliss in Tucson? what part of town are you in?

Following the recommendations and methods found here will put you ahead of anyone else you know with a pool ... unless they are also on this forum (there are a lot of Tucsonans )

I am in the NW (La Canada & Overton area).

I would recommend you pump out as much of the gunk in the bottom as you can (may have to dilute it with water) ... either rent a pump from Home Depot of Harbor Freight sells some cheap ones. And then get the thing filled up to figure out what equipment is working and how the plumbing is done.

When are you thinking of filling it? I may be able to swing by to help you figure out the plumbing (although this weekend is bad).

EDIT:
BTW, Looks like the smaller pump is a booster pump ... not sure if that is for the spa or if that is for a pressure cleaner. If it is for a pressure cleaner and you decide to not go that route, then you would not need to replace that pump, but that would mean that your other pump is used for circulation AND the spa, so it would have to stay on the larger side ... but a 2-speed would definitely be a good idea to use low for circulation. You would then use high speed for the spa and running solar.

 

[mas985]

The smaller pump is a booster for a cleaner. You can tell by the smaller line.

Which means that there is currently a single pump used for the both pool and spa. The valves to the right of the booster probably control the pool/spa mode. So you will probably need to have a pump at least as large as the one you have now but in either a two speed or VS speed.

 

[jblizzle]

That is what I thought about the smaller lines to the booster. Can you provide more info about the main pump size ... is there a Service Factor listed? ... that is important to determine the true motor/pumps power. I also looks like replacing that pump may be a bit tricky due to the lack of pipe before it enters the concrete.

Also, that first set of valves you show in the little "flower bed" type area may not be related to the pool. They look like they could be the house supply and irrigation valves ... well and maybe a line that runs to the pool to fill it up.

 

[twd000]

Hey neighbor! Welcome to TFP!

Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short

thanks, neighbor! any tips for pool bliss in Tucson? what part of town are you in?

Following the recommendations and methods found here will put you ahead of anyone else you know with a pool ... unless they are also on this forum (there are a lot of Tucsonans )

I am in the NW (La Canada & Overton area).

I would recommend you pump out as much of the gunk in the bottom as you can (may have to dilute it with water) ... either rent a pump from Home Depot of Harbor Freight sells some cheap ones. And then get the thing filled up to figure out what equipment is working and how the plumbing is done.

When are you thinking of filling it? I may be able to swing by to help you figure out the plumbing (although this weekend is bad).

EDIT:
BTW, Looks like the smaller pump is a booster pump ... not sure if that is for the spa or if that is for a pressure cleaner. If it is for a pressure cleaner and you decide to not go that route, then you would not need to replace that pump, but that would mean that your other pump is used for circulation AND the spa, so it would have to stay on the larger side ... but a 2-speed would definitely be a good idea to use low for circulation. You would then use high speed for the spa and running solar.

I'm in Tanque Verde. I may take you up on the offer- I'm planning to clean it Friday March 1, fill it Saturday March 2 and test the pumps March 3rd

I've got a call into Patio Pools for a quote on a new main pump.

So the booster is for a pressure cleaner...I see a circuit breaker marked "Polaris" is that a clue? Is that one of those automated systems? Would I be able to hand-vacuum without the booster pump?

 

[twd000]

That is what I thought about the smaller lines to the booster. Can you provide more info about the main pump size ... is there a Service Factor listed? ... that is important to determine the true motor/pumps power. I also looks like replacing that pump may be a bit tricky due to the lack of pipe before it enters the concrete.

Also, that first set of valves you show in the little "flower bed" type area may not be related to the pool. They look like they could be the house supply and irrigation valves ... well and maybe a line that runs to the pool to fill it up.

the tag on the main pump is totally faded from 20+ years in the sun. I'll see if I can pick off a SF but not likely

The valves in the flower bed is not related to house supply - that goes straight into house at south end, nowhere near pool. There is definitely a pool-filling valve (currently leaking) and there may be irrigation-related things in that cluster of pipes

 

[jblizzle]

Yes, the Polaris breaker would be for the booster pump for a Polaris brand pressure cleaner. There are 3 types of cleaners. A suction cleaner would just hook up to your main pump (likely in the skimmer) and suck the dirt into the filter. A pressure cleaner uses water returning to the pool (some with a booster and some without) to run the cleaner and collect the dirt and leaves in a filter/bag on the cleaner itself. A robot, which is electric and independent of any other pool equipment.

You can hook a vacuum up to the skimmer using the main pump to do it by hand, but eventually you will probably want to consider some type of cleaner. I am not sure, but I think you could re-plumb and use a pressure cleaner using just the main pump (What I am not clear on is whether the non-booster cleaners need a larger pipe than the booster cleaners do).

If you do not want the booster at all, I would suggest considering a robot.

Replacing the pump is not that difficult if you have ever done any simple PVC and electrical work, but if you are not comfortable with that, certainly hire it out. As mark said, you will likely need to stick with a 2HP pump to run the spa jets, but a 2-speed would be the way to go. With the lack of rebates and the low electrical cost we have, you may never save enough with a VS to justify the added cost. The only advantage with the VS would be the ability to dial in the flow rate and spa jet strength you like.

 

[twd000]

so the Polaris cleaner is gone (I assume someone from Fannie Mae threw it in the trash).
If I get the booster pump going, what is a good replacement pressure cleaning system?

 

[jblizzle]

so the Polaris cleaner is gone (I assume someone from Fannie Mae threw it in the trash).
If I get the booster pump going, what is a good replacement pressure cleaning system?

I have no idea ... I know there are lots of discussions about cleaners in the forum. Try a search of the forum to see what is out there and liked. I know a lot of people like the Polaris 280

 

[mas985]

If it were me, I would ditch the booster pump. There are plenty of decent cleaners that can work without a booster.

I use the ThePoolCleaner suction side cleaner but some on the forum also have the pressure side and they seem satisfied with.

 

[twd000]

just got off the phone w/ Patio Pools

I told her I wanted an estimate for a replacement pump, no other details. She told me $1600
I asked what specs that included - HP, speed, pump head, flow rate
She said that was "just a ballpark price"
not exactly helpful

 

[jblizzle]

Not really ... especially since the pump likely is ~$600 if you buy it online. You are probably too small potatos for them to want to deal with.

I have a friend who has gotten work done by Aqua-Man in town.

I re-did my entire pad by myself.

As a note ... looks like you are missing a check valve on the solar return pipe ... kind of an odd way the solar is valved in actually. It also some water flow bypass, but it could have been done with the single actuated valve.

 

[twd000]

can anyone recommend a 2HP/2-speed pump?
what specs do I need to compare? HP, SF, RPM, efficiency, pump head...
I see Hayward and Pentair, any other good brands?
will they all honor a warranty for a user-installed pump?