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Thread: Starting from scratch with a swg

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    Starting from scratch with a swg

    Hi,
    I've been reading the posts on this forum and pool school for a solid week now and I believe I am on information overload, but one thing I definitely decided was to quit listening to Leslie's about all the chemicals I need. Last year had a huge algae problem after adding large quantities of acid, chlorine, phosfree, i want to try The BBB method. We've been wanting a SWG and with the combination of high tds and problems from last year, we want to start fresh. So, next weekend, I am draining my pool and installing a jandy aquapure ei swg. I also purchased the tf100 test kit to do all my testing. My question is, I know I need to add bags of salt, but I guess I'm confused on the order to do things..this is what I'm guessing, please assist.

    Steps
    Install SWG
    Drain pool
    Fill pool
    Add salt
    Check cya
    Add stabilizer if low (should I use liquid or not)
    Check fc (adjust swg or is this where I should add bleach)
    What next?

    Thanks!!
    David

    17K gal, plaster, 1 1/2 HP Starite Max-E-pro pump, 300 sqft s7m120 system 3 cartridge filter, Jandy Aquapure eI SWG (tentative), Hayward pool vac ultra
    17.5K gal, plaster, 1 1/2 HP Starite Max-E-pro pump, 300 sqft s7m120 system 3 cartridge filter, Jandy Aquapure eI SWG (tentative), Hayward pool vac ultra

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    Welcome to tfp, dlee360

    Typically we only recommend during drain/partial drains and refills if CH, cya, or metals are high. Other than that, you should be able to deal with your water without it.

    Post results once you get your tf-100 and we can go from there.

    Ignore the "high tds" , it is not an issue for a properly chlorinated pool.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    Is your water table low enough to drain fully? Draining that far can "float" a pool resulting in damaged plumbing. Be careful!

    Sent via Tapatalk...
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    Thanks Linen! Still eagerly waiting for the kit..hopefully tomorrow. I'll definitely post my results.

    Thanks UnderWaterVanya, I've read a lot pools "floating". I've drained once before without any problems (didn't even know about "floating" prior)..anyway, if it didn't float before..could it float now?

    David
    17.5K gal, plaster, 1 1/2 HP Starite Max-E-pro pump, 300 sqft s7m120 system 3 cartridge filter, Jandy Aquapure eI SWG (tentative), Hayward pool vac ultra

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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    It is possible for it to float if you have had alot of rain, i would not take that chance....once you get your test kit post a full set of results and if your cya is high. i.e above 100 i would suggest a PARTIAL drain and refill to adjust cya.
    18x52 intex ultra frame pool 6981 gallons, 1 HP LL pump with 19 in sand filter,BBB method,borax 50ppm
    leslies DPD test kit + fas-dpd chlorine test kit + borates test strips
    thru wall skimmer,hard plumbed with 2 returns 1 1/2 sch 40 pvc
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    msgtdan's Avatar
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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    If you do drain and refill, you won't have any CYA. Plan on adding it, your choice on solid or liquid. Liquid is quicker but more expensive. You'll have to wait for the salt to dissolve before turning on the SWG, so I'd use bleach to bring up the FC and maintain until the SWG is running. Also use bleach if you should have an algae outbreak as it will help your SWG to last longer. When you get your test kit I'd run the tests on your fill water so you have a base line of where you're starting.
    Dan D
    Used 2003 Aqua Leader 27'x52", 17,800 w/10" hopper, SwimPro SW256T 250# sand filter, Hayward PowerFlo LX pump 1hp impellor, Emerson 1 1/2 hp motor, setup Aug 2012 Summer 2011 used Summer Escapes Ring pool 14' x 42", Intex 1600gph sand filter, HTH 6 way test kitTF-100 w/stirrer, Well water @ FC=0, PH=7.2, TA=290, CH=320

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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    Thanks!! Still patiently waiting for the kit..I'm was pretty set on doing a full drain as I kind of letting the pool run its course this winter, but I am starting to think partial drain..Anyway, when I get the kit, I'll do a full test and post and then go from there. Again, thanks!!!

    David
    17.5K gal, plaster, 1 1/2 HP Starite Max-E-pro pump, 300 sqft s7m120 system 3 cartridge filter, Jandy Aquapure eI SWG (tentative), Hayward pool vac ultra

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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    Okay!! I got my test kit. Since I'm going to drain, I assume I'm only concerned about CYA...so I tested CYA and here are some pics. There's not a mark of where my CYA is at..it seems it's halfway to the 100 mark so my questions is...how much do I need to drain?



    Thanks!
    David
    17.5K gal, plaster, 1 1/2 HP Starite Max-E-pro pump, 300 sqft s7m120 system 3 cartridge filter, Jandy Aquapure eI SWG (tentative), Hayward pool vac ultra

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    I'd start with half and see where that gets you. You'll most likely have to drain more than that.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    To elaborate a little on what Bama said, the CYA test is not very precise when the CYA level is really high. Because of that it is difficult to be sure exactly what your CYA level currently is. Your CYA is at least 100, and looks to be rather higher than 100, but there is no easy way to pin it down with any precision. It could be 100, 200, 300, or more.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    msgtdan's Avatar
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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    Nice picture, I think I can faintly see the dot, but even so I agree with Jason you're probably over 100. One thing you can try is mixing pool water and tap water 50/50 and redoing the test then doubling the reading, it's even less accurate but gets you a ballpark figure.
    Dan D
    Used 2003 Aqua Leader 27'x52", 17,800 w/10" hopper, SwimPro SW256T 250# sand filter, Hayward PowerFlo LX pump 1hp impellor, Emerson 1 1/2 hp motor, setup Aug 2012 Summer 2011 used Summer Escapes Ring pool 14' x 42", Intex 1600gph sand filter, HTH 6 way test kitTF-100 w/stirrer, Well water @ FC=0, PH=7.2, TA=290, CH=320

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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    Just wanted to give a quick update...I ended up draining the whole pool as I just didn't have the time to drain half/refill, redrain/refill, anyway..I had a couple hiccups..I had to replace the light fixture as well as repair a crack..SO..the pool is currently being filled (halfway point) and I expect to have it completely filled in the next 4 or 5 hours. As far as what I have on hand, when the pool is filled..I have the following stuff ready:
    2 gallons 10% liquid chlorine
    4lbs dry stabilizer
    5 bags of 40% solar salt

    I will test the fill water before adding anything and I'll definitely post the results before I add anything as I have no idea what the heck I'm doing

    David
    17.5K gal, plaster, 1 1/2 HP Starite Max-E-pro pump, 300 sqft s7m120 system 3 cartridge filter, Jandy Aquapure eI SWG (tentative), Hayward pool vac ultra

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    I'd add about 2 quarts of the bleach.

    4 lbs of stabilizer will raise the CYA to about 30 ppm which is a good start.

    I hope you mean (5) 40lb bags of solar salt. That will raise the salt by about 1400 ppm.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    Yes, 5 40lbs of solar salt..okay..so with a SWG, I should be between 50-80ppm, correct? So should I just add another 4 lbs of stabilizer for a total of 8lbs or would I just add 4lbs and check. Also, the SWG says that it should have 4000ppm of salt..so do I need 14bags?!?!

    David
    17.5K gal, plaster, 1 1/2 HP Starite Max-E-pro pump, 300 sqft s7m120 system 3 cartridge filter, Jandy Aquapure eI SWG (tentative), Hayward pool vac ultra

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    I'd shoot for about 70 ppm total, but I'd add the 4lbs and then test. You'll probably wind up needing another 5 lbs or so.

    There's most likely some salt content in your fill water so I'd check that first, but yeah, it's going to take a lot more than 5 bags. If your salt content is zero, then yes, it will take 14 bags to get to ~4000 ppm.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    Alright! For the numbers...drum roll please...
    FC-0 (Chlorine Drop Test - I'm guessing 0 because the water never turned pink)
    PH - 7.8
    TA - 160
    CH - 230
    CYA - 0 (I'm guessing 0 because I could always see the black dot)
    Salt - ? I guess I need a salt tester.

    What do I now? Also, I haven't installed my swg yet..I was planning on doing it tomorrow and then adding the salt, but before that..what chemical do I need to add right now?

    Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    David
    17.5K gal, plaster, 1 1/2 HP Starite Max-E-pro pump, 300 sqft s7m120 system 3 cartridge filter, Jandy Aquapure eI SWG (tentative), Hayward pool vac ultra

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    Get FC up to 2ppm to start. Start adding the CYA. Start adding salt.

    Maintain the FC with bleach as you increase the CYA according to the chart in Pool School.

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    David, yes you need a salt tester and I can recommend the drop test from Taylor (I think it's around 20 bucks) makes it simple and accurate. I try and keep my salt level exactly in the middle of the manufacturer's recommendation.

    Bob E.

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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    Thanks Bob and Jason,
    Okay, added 64oz of 10% liquid chlorine last night. Will start adding CYA today (do I need to let filter run 24 hours?) while I add it. So after reading all the posts with tabs, I know I shouldn't use them, but would it be a good idea to use them here since I want to increase chlorine, lower PH, and increase CYA...seems like the perfect combination (I only have 6 or 8 tabs left) so either I throw them away or use them..

    Oh..FC is at 1ppm right now (just tested 10 minutes ago)
    17.5K gal, plaster, 1 1/2 HP Starite Max-E-pro pump, 300 sqft s7m120 system 3 cartridge filter, Jandy Aquapure eI SWG (tentative), Hayward pool vac ultra

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Starting from scratch with a swg

    As long as you understand what the chemicals use do to you pool, you can use whatever you like.

    Use the poolcalculator.com to know how much each tablet should increase your CYA ... but realize this is slow and you will be loosing FC to the sun until the CYA level gets up. You will likely also have to add some CYA separately ... also note that the CYA can be acidic and help lower the pH as well.

    Put the CYA in a sock and tied in front of a pool return, you will want to keep the pump running until it fully dissolves (squeeze it often to help).

    I would calculate how much the pucks you have are going to increase the CYA, then start floating them AND put the rest of the CYA you will need into a sock and start it as well.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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