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Thread: Troubling pump issues

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    Troubling pump issues

    I've been dealing with this pump issue off and on for over a year. Most recently the customer had his pool renovated and the pump/filter was moved maybe 10 feet from it's previous location. Before the equipment was ever moved the owner always had issues priming the pump as well as always had a large air bubble when it was running. It never seemed to fill all the way up. I have been over the pump 100's of times and never found any air leak on the suction side of things. Pressure tests on lines show no leaks wither. This is a rather old pump, Ultra-Flow, of which parts seem to be getting scarce. I've replaced lid o-ring, drain plug, seal plates, the works. Now that the equipment was moved and the issue still remains I am leaning towards just replacing the old pump all together. I believe it is a 1 1/2HP motor but not 100% sure as the label is not readable any more.

    The pool is about 12,000 gallons. All of the lines except for the spa drain are 1 1/2". Spa drain is a 2". Pool has 2 returns, one drain, and one skimmer. Spa has one drain, one return and several jets. The owner is also contemplating adding solar to the pool . Single story house. My estimate is another 1 1/2HP pump should be just fine and probably a 2-speed one at that although there are still plenty of single speeds available to the homeowner. Since he just spent a ton of cash on the pool and a new outdoor kitchen he might not like the higher priced 2-speed motor.

    So a 1 1/2 should be ok for this setup from my calculations, in other words just looking at it. Oh yeah the filter is a Hayward 120SQ put in by the builder 10 years ago.

    Are there any other considerations I should look at?
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Troubling pump issues

    I would suggest a 1HP (full rated) instead. That's plenty of pump for that pool and filter. The 2-speed version may pay him back in a couple of years but he may not want to front the money right now.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Troubling pump issues

    HP ratings are not all the meaningful so if you have a pump model# and/or motor model# we can better determine what you currently have and what you should get.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Troubling pump issues

    I am considering the 1.5HP UR WHISPERFLO WF-26. My understanding is this UR is the same as a 1 HP FR. Unless I calculated it incorrectly.

    I'm unsure what the motor is on the existing as the label is badly worn off.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Troubling pump issues

    The WF-26 is really too big for 1 1/2" plumbing. In fact, all the Whisperflo's are going to be too big except for maybe the 1/2 HP. Do you know the voltage supply (115v or 230v)?

    Part of the problem may be having too large of a pump on such small plumbing so the high suction is drawing in air to the pump basket. But if you downsize, the spa jets are going to be weak. So you may need to make a choice. Putting a large pump back on that plumbing may have the same issue as now.

    But given the spa is the determining factor for the pump, how many jets does the spa have and do you know the size of the jet nozzles?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Troubling pump issues

    It's 240v. I believe the spa has three jets and looks to be half inch openings. A few years back the local pool store installed an air pipe for the spa jets and it has a valve to open and close it. It sits in the yard behind the spa. So I am guessing there wasn't much movement in the spa back then and they tried to remedy it that way.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Troubling pump issues

    Are you sure that isn't the eyeball size? 1/2" would be very unusual for spa jet. I am talking about the nozzle size which is deep inside the exit pipe and usually either 3/8" or 7/16". You cannot see it from the outside. You have to look inside the jet exit port to see the nozzle.

    But with only three jets, there may be an opportunity to downsize the pump but to make sure I would need to know the jet nozzle size.

    Also, what is the distance between the spa and pump?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Troubling pump issues

    I'm not sure of the jet nozzle size. I guess I would need to look at some point.

    Distance between spa and pump is probably 30-35 feet.

    Here is the new setup before the pump was hooked up. Starting from the left is the pool MD, skimmer, vac, and the spa drain. The spa is the only 2" pipe in the system.



    Here is the old setup.

    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Troubling pump issues

    Since there are multiple parallel suction ports, it will help some with the head loss when in pool mode. So I think you would be ok with a Whisperflo WFDS-24 but that is a 115v pump. You could go as high as the WFDS-26 (230v) but definitely get the two speed so they can run on low most of the time for the pool. Another 230v pump is the Superflo 1 URHP pump is a good choice although it might produce slightly less flow rate than the current pump and without knowing what kind of pump it is, it is hard to tell.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Troubling pump issues

    Thanks. When you mention the flow rate on the Super Flo, are you more concerned about enough flow in spa mode?
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Troubling pump issues

    Yes, I was more concerned about the spa mode. Without knowing what kind of jets they have, it is hard to know for sure which would be best.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Troubling pump issues

    Well i am not happy with the DS pump. On low speed it doesnt push enough water to cause the spa to overflow like it should. So now i have to run the pump on high speed. The pool has two returns and the one return actually shows the flow. This is even more troubling now.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Troubling pump issues

    Which pump did you install?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Troubling pump issues

    I ended up with a starite max-e-pro P6RA6YF-206l.. My supplier didnt have the Whisper WFDS-26. I took my suppliers word they were the same just different name plates.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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    Re: Troubling pump issues

    So is the main issue that low speed does not have enough flow rate for the spillover?

    Low speed is primarily to save energy costs and it will filter and circulate the water just fine but it really isn't meant for any sort of water feature.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Troubling pump issues

    Went back to the house and low and behold, the owner put in an old filter cartridge and it was impeding the flow. The gauge on the filter was going crazy with the cartridge in it. I removed the filter and there is great flow on high and low speed. Never again take a homeowners word for anything. He never told me the filter was swapped out for an old one. With the cartridge removed there is a flow over the spill way of the spa now. So I'm pretty sure a new filter will solve the issue, I hope. With the pool having been resurfaced I'm sure the filters he had got very dirty and clogged from all the dust in the pool. Cleaning the filter was worthless so he will be getting a new filter.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

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