ECOsmarte pool

[jwrichter]

Hi, new guy here. Does anyone have any knowledge regarding ECOsmarte pools that use no chlorine?

Thanks, I am in Florida and planning to build a in ground pool.

 

[jblizzle]

Welcome to TFP!!!

You will find little support here for these types of systems. For one, they are not approved by the EPA to effectively sanitize a pool. Additionally, the use of metals can result in staining of the pool and people's hair.

Try a search of the forums at the top and you will find a lot of discussion about "alternative sanitizers"

Here is one I quickly found:
done-with-ecosmarte-advice-for-converting-to-chlorine-t45532.html?hilit=ecosmarte

And here is a great read as well:
alternative-sanitizers-and-chemical-free-pools-the-truth-t3025.html

 

[jwrichter]

I would really like to here from those that have the system in a current post.

 

[Melt In The Sun]

I doubt you will find many satisfied customers...you can read some old threads to see why. You are free to use it in your own pool.

Do yourself a favor a don't believe what you read on their site. This forum has real experiences, which are far more valuable.

Edit: using the google search in the very bottom left of the page is probably the easiest way to find them. Here are a few:
converting-my-ecosmarte-system-to-chlorine-t24194.html
i-ve-had-it-with-ecosmarte-t25993.html
done-with-ecosmarte-advice-for-converting-to-chlorine-t45532.html
copper-and-silver-based-ioniser-system-ecosmarte-and-such-t2323.html
eco-smarte-system-t612.html

 

[linen]

Welcome to tfp, jwrichter

I am just curious...what is driving to look at the Ecosmarte? Are you just curious, or is it more than that?

 

[JasonLion]

Over many years I've only seen a few reports from ecoSmarte owners that weren't clearly written directly by ecoSmarte. Most of them were quite negative and had stopped using their ecoSmarte system. The majority of the remainder had only had the system for a short time.

 

[Nova13]

Not sure if http://www.troublefreepool.com/natural-swimming-pool-nsps-build-t55535.htmlalong the same lines

 

[jwrichter]

Thanks for the input. I had a pool in SW Florida and actually said I'd never have another one. Not that we didn't enjoy it but the hassle of dealing with the chemicals is what got me. So when we decided to build another house the pool question came up. In the house we are in now I have a water feature put in, we used real river rock, 4 ft high water fall with a stream that is 25 ft long and about 12-15" deep. Looks nice but again not the answer as its a constant algae war.

So in re-evaluating a pool and using the internet I across the ECOsmarte and got a bit excited about having a pool without all the hassles of using chemicals. Whether or not this system really works or not I don't know but it is becoming obvious that it isn't going to work for us. We are in our mid-60's now and if I do decide to go with a pool I would like to have the ability to turn it over to someone if we go on a extended vacation. The ECOsmarte rep that I spoke with is no where near our build area and they seem to indicate that there is a steep learning curve regarding water testing etc which also doesn't sound good for us.

So, we are back to examining a chlorinated system. I will be going through the old posts on this site as I am sure these questions have come up before. I enjoy forums like this one because I believe that you can get some good useful info from people that aren't out to sell you something. If anyone can direct me to discussions regarding which system, salt or fresh I would appreciate it.

 

[duraleigh]

Well, this forum may be able to help you take out some of the mystery of dealing with chemicals. Have you started our "Pool School" (in the upper right hand corner) yet?

It talks about the basic parameters necessary to keep your pool crystal clear. It also teaches that once you understand the "why" and "how" of controlling these parameters, pool water management becomes very simple.

Depending on yourself and not the pool store to manage your pool can make your pool experience much more enjoyable.

 

[JohnT]

So, we are back to examining a chlorinated system. I will be going through the old posts on this site as I am sure these questions have come up before. I enjoy forums like this one because I believe that you can get some good useful info from people that aren't out to sell you something. If anyone can direct me to discussions regarding which system, salt or fresh I would appreciate it.

You'll find that once you understand the chemistry and have good test results, you don't really spend very much time at all on pool chemistry. I usually test my water when I get home from work. I grab a drink and then get my water sample and sit down in the shade to do the testing. Once you get the hang of it, you can really take care of all your pool chemistry in 10 minutes a week. You probably won't find anybody here that thinks the chemical side of pool care is a hassle anymore.

Much of the pool chemistry information that you find is geared to people who don't want to learn, products are designed to be simple to use so people will buy them. Our methods are more precise, and they do require some knowledge. It may seem at first that there is a lot to digest, but the actual chemistry and procedures are really pretty simple. The great thing about the forum is that you always have somebody you can check with if something isn't clear or you aren't sure what you need. Pool School is a great place to start, and feel free to ask questions about the articles as you read them.

My friends seem to be obsessed with my filter. They can't believe that keeping the water so clear is so easy, so they think it must be because my filter is better than theirs.

 

[jwrichter]

Thanks John, my pool testing issues were back in 2000 and I can understand why I had issues taking water samples to pool stores who wanted to sell me more different chemicals. I have read that the sand filters are worth the investment.

 

[jwrichter]

copper EPA info

Thought you might like to read this.


Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 1:56 PM

Subject: EPA Copper Claims



EPA approves copper as an antimicrobial agent
The EPA approves copper as an antimicrobial agent to control deadly infections. To quote the EPA, "For the first time, copper systems can be marketed legally in U.S. using public health claims".
The Environmental Protection Agency by announcing this major breakthrough of approving copper in protecting public health and playing a key role in preventing infections was the result of extensive real world testing. Rigorous analysis by independent lab and hospital testing showed elimination of bacterial, fungal and viral pathogens within minutes. The list includes hospital superbugs (MRSA – Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus aureus), E. coli, streptococcus, fungi, influenza virus, bird flu, VRE (Vancomycin-resistant Enterococci), Acinetobacter baumanni, Clostridium difficile, molds, (Aspergillus niger), Legionella pneumophila. By using copper systems, we can help prevent over 2 million infections, save over 100,000 lives and the estimated $30 billion dollars in overall health care costs.
The variety of applications for our equipment is far ranging. It includes pools, spas, fountains, HVAC equipment, cooling towers, hospitals, food and potable water systems. We see the successful use of our ionization systems helping to solve the major problems facing our most vitally important natural resources, air and water, the source of life. By preventing and combating growth in water treatment systems, our equipment will play a major role in non-toxic environmentally friendly methods of insuring the public health in both public and private spaces.
The following is a synopsis of medical, and scientific professional quotes on the effectiveness of this technology.
Routine Surveillance and Electronic Liquid Purification Systems Prevent Outbreaks "The continued control of legionella by electronic ionization is due to the penetration of the copper ions into the biofilms of the water distribution system killing the organisms. – Cu/Ag ionization systems have proven to be the most effective method for control of legionella in water distribution systems. (Infection Control Today 2000)

Infectious Control Hospital Epidemiology Study Dr. Stout Ph.D., Dr. Yu, M.D.
(Based on a five to eleven year field studies of 16 hospitals) – Copper ionization is now the only disinfection modality to have fulfilled all four evaluation criteria. Hospital-Acquired legionnaire’s disease can be prevented by disinfection of hospital water systems. No cases of hospital-acquired legionnaire’s disease have occurred any hospital since 1995.

In an overall subjective appraisal by infection control practitioners, most rated the systems as excellent, based on results of environmental cultures and on the incidence of hospital-acquired legionnaires disease. Legionella in Hospital water Systems - (Prevention and Control Measures Conference Report 2004)



merged the posts from the deep end to this thread...let's discuss it all in one topic please! MITS

 

[CB]

How much is the cost of an Ecosmart pool?(system and startup costs,monthly/weekly additions)
For me my SWCG,salt,acid,TF-100 test kit and occasional chlorine additions for last year ran me about $950 for the year.This year will be alot less,no SWCG to buy.Keep in mind this is a AG pool.If you went with a chlorine pool assuming Clorox costs $6/96 oz. and you used a bottle a week and your swim season is 30 weeks you would have spent $180 for the season.If you add in acid and baking soda you could run your pool for less than $250 a season.(chemical wise) I also spend less than 2 hrs. a week on testing/adjusting water chemistry,cleaning and general pool maint.
I never thought owning a pool would be this easy.TFP makes understanding your water chemistry so easy that you will think your missing something,your not it's just that simple.

P.S. Get a good test kit it makes understanding your chemistry very easy,it will pay for itself many times over in just the first season.

 

[duraleigh]

Re: copper EPA info

and it accumulates in your pool and can precipitate out and cause horrendous staining that sometimes can't be removed. The forum generally believes that copper has some side affects that make it not worth using.

 

[cramar]

Well, reading this it seems your biased towards wanting one and based on what you say it seems the primary reason is to get out of spending time managing the water.

Several of the best contributors on this forum have given you their unbiased opinions but it seems your not convinced. You've asked for advice and you've received it, wether you heed it is up to you, based on my own experience here for a few years now - I would!

The bottom line is that there is no "set it and forget it" solution for managing pool water quality, despite slick marketing claims to the contrary. The straight forward, time tested, approach of regular testing and chlorhine is still the most reliable solution.

Not trying to be a jerk, but people have provided you with knowledge but you don't seem to believe them. To me, the content in that email has nothing to do with managing pool water.

 

[Melt In The Sun]

Re: copper EPA info

That still does not say it is an approved sanitizer for swimming pools, meaning it is still illegal to use in a public pool. The kill times for various disease-causing microbes using chlorine and various metals are discussed in depth in the 'chemical-free pools - the truth' thread linked above.

Pools and water supplies are very different animals - in a pool, it takes seconds or less for some nasty gook to get from one person to another. In a water supply perhaps taking minutes (or longer) to kill germs is OK, but in a pool you need something virtually instantaneous if it is going to be safe. Ergo chlorine.

 

[chem geek]

The quotes about EPA approving copper are about SOLID copper surfaces and for situations where one has a lot of time in which to kill pathogens. Read the original EPA fact sheet here which is about "copper-containing alloy products" and it takes 2 hours for a 99.9% kill of bacteria.

Metal ions such as copper and silver are NOT approved as primary disinfectants for swimming pools since they do NOT pass EPA DIS/TSS-12 which requires a 99.9999% kill in 30 seconds for Escherichia coli and 2 minutes for Enterococcus faecalis so kill rates that are 120-480 times faster than that of the copper alloy products. I give a table of kill times in this post where you can see that copper ions at concentrations allowed in swimming pools do not even kill fecal bacteria. In fact, the EPA has been reviewing copper ion products such as Pristine Blue® and making them go through a re-registration process so that they can no longer claim to kill bacteria -- they can only claim to control "non-public health bacteria", so not fecal bacteria. Silver ions (not used in EcoSmarte) handle fecal bacteria, but neither copper nor silver kill fast enough to meet EPA standards that are designed to prevent person-to-person transmission of disease.

You're being intentionally deceived by manufacturers with a profit motive. They take quotes out of context in the hope that you don't know enough to make an informed decision. What kind of support do you think you are going to get from people who intentionally deceive in this way?