Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 44

Thread: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    77

    Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    Well, it happened to me for the second time....ants built a mound into my 1hp pool pump.
    It was tripping the breaker. I cleaned away the mound and got the ants out of the electronics and now I get the dreaded hum, but not starting. I also blasted water into the vent openings to clear out the mud.

    I have executed my "Plan B", and moved the feature pump into position as the filter pump. Out of harms way for now, but I want to consider more a economical main pump, if I cannot fix the one I have pulled out.

    So, 2 questions:

    1. Is my current pump dead? I plan to rip it apart later to see if I can clean out more mud to get it to run.

    2. Leslie's claims the Hayward EcoStar pump saves $1500 in electricity per year. That's $125/month. I read here that it also features freeze protection, which sounds cool. Has anyone tracked their energy savings from this pump? Cost is $1300 at Leslie's.
    19k gal, STS1072R A.O. Smith C-Face Motor .75HP Full-Rated 2-Speed, Hayward Sand Filter

  2. Back To Top    #2

    TFP Guide

    chiefwej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,853

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    How high are your electric rates? My total electric bill (which includes air conditioning a 2700 square foot house in Tucson AZ) averages around $180/month. I doubt it would go down to $55 if I bought a new pool pump.

    I figure my pool pumps consume about $40/month at the height of the swim season, even less during other months, and that's for old single speed units.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,347

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    1) You won't know if it's ruined until you takes the back cover off and see what's wrong in there.

    2) Unless you live in one of the few places where the electric rate is very high, had a very large hp single speed pump that you were replacing and ran it 24 hours a day, you're not going to see nearly that much savings. My big ole single speed pump on;y costs me about $40 per month or less during the swim season to run, so no pump could save me $1500 per year. They like to exaggerate the savings with those pumps. While they are good pumps and can save money, you need to be realistic about how much it will really save you.

    Tell us about your pool & equipment and how much electricity costs you.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    77

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    My electric bill runs a minimum of $125, and runs to a maximum of $300 in coldest winter/warmest summer months.
    So I guess I spend $175 on A/C here in southern Georgia, so pool is certainly less than $60/month.
    GP estimates it is between $26 and $40, using their calculator.
    Can't really turn the pool off for a month to find out exactly the charge.

    Pool is 21000 gals...SWG, pump was 1 hp, now I am back to 3/4 hp using the old feature pump. (Pool company originally used 3/4 for both...replacement last time was with 1 hp, due to lack of 3/4 hp availability.)
    19k gal, STS1072R A.O. Smith C-Face Motor .75HP Full-Rated 2-Speed, Hayward Sand Filter

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    77

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    Well, no luck getting further into the motor than the impeller removal. Seems like a lot of delicate work needs to be done to get the thing truly apart. I shined a light in and things did not look too bad, although there was a smell of burnt electronics in the motor windings (not from the electronics in the end cap with the magneto.)

    I will let it dry out overnight some more, and install in the morning as the feature pump, to see if it wants to work.

    Based on the input so far, I may just select a standard 3/4 pump again.
    19k gal, STS1072R A.O. Smith C-Face Motor .75HP Full-Rated 2-Speed, Hayward Sand Filter

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,347

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    Did you pull the back cover off and clean the contacts?

    In south Georgia your electric rate isn't high enough that you'd ever recoup the extra cost of a variable speed pump. Your best bet would be to go with a 2-speed. Either a 3/4th hp full rated or a 1 hp uprated pump would work fine.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    77

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    Yeah, it's shot. Put it back and at first it buzzed. Turned off and heard a "click" a minute later.
    Tried again, and it ran slowly with a bad grinding sound. So time for a new pump.

    What's the story with the 2 speed pump? Is that a rewiring project as well?
    19k gal, STS1072R A.O. Smith C-Face Motor .75HP Full-Rated 2-Speed, Hayward Sand Filter

  8. Back To Top    #8
    bobodaclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lakeland, FL
    Posts
    2,351

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    It could be a rewiring project, but doesn't have to be. You can get a manual hi/low switch mounted on the back, and keep the wiring as it is.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

  9. Back To Top    #9

    TFP Guide

    chiefwej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,853

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    There are several good reasons to consider a multi speed or variable speed pump, but they will never pay back the extra cost in a single year. I plan of using one the next time I have to replace a pump, but instant savings isn't my prime reason. Quite operation, better filtration are more important in my decision making. Savings are only achieved over the long term and that is assuming a good long life cycle with no problems.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    77

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    I notice the Variable pumps are fully sealed (no vents) and so would have survived an anthill being built against the pump.

    Hey, just wanted to give some more pool info. I have 1.5 inch piping all around, including to and from the Filter.
    The SWG is designed for 2" pipe, so there are 2 special junctions to allow for that transition and back.
    The filter claims to process 75 gpm, but the flow through 1.5 inch piping is only 42 gpm, so I think that is what I have to shoot for. I have 3 return lines and only 2 lines out to the pool, but all branch from the same 1.5 inch central piping.

    So, will a 2 speed filter be able to push enough water? Seems with the variable, you can tweak it to what you need, but I can see buying the 2 speed and having to run it in the higher speed all the time. (saving nothing, and spending 2x on the pump, it appears.)

    Seems if I settle for a single speed motor only, I can get a AO Smith UST1072 Pool Pump Motor with the 56J Frame, and be done with it for only $160. Wonder if the 2-speeds have the 56J frame?

    Guys, what does "up-rated" mean? Doesn't sound good.
    19k gal, STS1072R A.O. Smith C-Face Motor .75HP Full-Rated 2-Speed, Hayward Sand Filter

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    77

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    Google is your friend...here is the skinny on up-rating:

    The Calculation
    There is one simple calculation which tells the whole story

    Horsepower X Service Factor = Total Brake Horsepower

    If you multiply the horsepower rating times the service factor, you find out the total brake horsepower.

    The total brake horsepower of the pump is real power rating of that pump or motor.

    How Pumps and Motors Get Uprated
    The motor plate above lists the following ratings for this 3/4 HP Full-Rated Motor:
    Horsepower - 0.75 Service Factor - 1.5
    If we insert these factors into the equation, we end up with the following result
    Horsepower X Service Factor = Total Brake Horsepower
    0.75 1.5 1.13
    Now, suppose you really wanted to take this motor and call it a 1.0 HP motor instead.

    You would just INCREASE the Horsepower Rating and DECREASE the Service Factor.

    Horsepower X Service Factor = Total Brake Horsepower
    1.0 1.13 1.13
    VOILA . . . that 3/4 HP Full Rated Motor is now classified as a 1.0 HP Up-Rated Motor

    EXACT SAME MOTOR . . . DIFFERENT HORSEPOWER RATING
    19k gal, STS1072R A.O. Smith C-Face Motor .75HP Full-Rated 2-Speed, Hayward Sand Filter

  12. Back To Top    #12
    mas985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    11,489

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    We have it well documented on the forum here:

    pool-school/pool_pump_basics

    or here

    hydraulics-101-have-you-lost-your-head-t915.html
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    77

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    Thanks for the schooling....I thought about Pool School, but did not think that was in the syllabus.

    Does it matter if my pumps down a hill, 4 feet lower than the pool deck? Does that increase my "head", or is it a wash, since water pressure into my pumps is positive, rather than a vacuum. Which means when my seals fail (happened once in a freeze) I lose an expensive 4 feet of water.
    19k gal, STS1072R A.O. Smith C-Face Motor .75HP Full-Rated 2-Speed, Hayward Sand Filter

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,347

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    It might make a little difference depending on just how it's situated, but it's most likely not much. The head you gain on the suction side by being lower than the pool is offset by the amount you have to pump the water back up hill to get to the returns.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by LotusRacerX
    Thanks for the schooling....I thought about Pool School, but did not think that was in the syllabus.

    Does it matter if my pumps down a hill, 4 feet lower than the pool deck? Does that increase my "head", or is it a wash, since water pressure into my pumps is positive, rather than a vacuum. Which means when my seals fail (happened once in a freeze) I lose an expensive 4 feet of water.
    If your equipment is downhill then that is 4feet of vertical head. Honestly is should zero out depending on where the return lines are.

    Seals Fail??

    So what seals failed motor, returns, tablet feeder??

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    77

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by poolweasel
    Seals Fail??
    So what seals failed motor, returns, tablet feeder??
    Sorry, it was actually a valve freeze/burst, from the floor drain return. I just worry that with ME re-assembling my pumps, I might mess it up and have another water loss situation in the future.

    Are you saying that if there is no leak once re-assembled, it will not start to leak later? That would be comforting.

    With the 2 speed pumps, the top speed is too much for my pipes, at 1.5 hp, and the slow speed of .25hp sounds too low. I am thinking of going with a Full Rated .5 hp unit, which multiplies out to .8hp, while using less power than my current .75 uprated motor.
    19k gal, STS1072R A.O. Smith C-Face Motor .75HP Full-Rated 2-Speed, Hayward Sand Filter

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    Is the return still under water?

    What part of the country do you live?

    I agree with the two speed and not using but, depends if you are replacing the pump or the motor.

    Top speed of any pump is around 3250 rpm

    Variable speed motor can replace any motor.

    A pump as a whole you must get a .(v speed) a two speeds top speed has to be a tad lower.

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,347

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    There's no guarantee that a pump won't leak later but that's true even with a brand new pump. The chance of it happening is really low. Once you get it all reassembled and it has ran for a little while, if there are no leaks, then there's a very good chance that there won't be until the unit wears out again, and that will be along time.

    Replace the motor/pump with a 2-speed model. The high speed will be the same as you have now and the low speed won't be too low. When you reduce the speed of the pump you also reduce the head losses and therefore a very small hp will turn the impeller. Even though it seems like a very small hp on low it's designed to operate that way and be fine with it.

    Actually top speed is about 3450 but that doesn't matter anyway.

    A variable speed motor can only replace a motor with the same frame size and rated for the same hp or less. Also if you replace the motor with a variable speed motor you're going to have to have a controller also.

    I don't know what poolweasel is trying to say in the last sentence, but as I said, in south Georgia a variable speed pump will never pay for itself. Now if you just want one for the "coolness" factor that's a different animal and it certainly will work for you.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    77

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    OK, I got it down to 2 contenders:
    AO Smith ST1052 1/2 hp, 1.6 sf 5.3 amps at 230v
    AO Smith B977 2-speed 1.3 sf 1/4 hp 3.1 amp/1.5 hp 8.9 amp

    My thought is that the single speed is the "safe choice", will definitely work. Essentially the same as my 3/4 hp uprated motor with its 1.0 sf. Slightly less amps, and 1/3 less amps than the 1hp unit that just blew up.

    I am willing to trust that the 2-speed will move some water at 1/4 hp * 1.3 = 1/3 hp
    What I am worried about is that when run at the higher speed (1.5 hp * 1.3 = 2 hp), it will be too much for my skinny 1.5 inch pipes. Is this really not a concern?

    If they all spin at 3450 rpm, then how are the higher powered units providing more flow exactly? Or would a unit that is too low powered simply buzz and not turn at all?
    19k gal, STS1072R A.O. Smith C-Face Motor .75HP Full-Rated 2-Speed, Hayward Sand Filter

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Ants killed my pump again...replacement ideas?

    You should match the high speed HP and SF to your existing pump and ignore the low speed parameters ... Assuming you are not replacing the pump and only the motor. There are certainly smaller 2 speed pumps available.

    The impellers are different depending on the HP, so they move more water. If the motor HP is too small for the impeller, you will shorten the life of the motor and it may overheat. A larger motor will be fine on a smaller impeller, but costs more for the same performance.

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •