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Thread: Also new here, need some advice

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    Also new here, need some advice

    I'm a new home owner that happened to get a pool with it. I've very new to pools and this seems like a great forum for advice and such. Been doing a bunch of reading on the site and some of it is even starting to make sense. Here comes a long story....

    Recently the main pump for the WhisperFlo failed, luckily I had a home owner insurance with the new purchase and got it replaced for $65. However in the meantime between unpacking and Christmas two weeks went by with little maintenance and a couple of winter storms, a fair bit of leaves stayed in the pool for a couple of weeks (no cover). After Christmas noticed the pool was looking pretty shabby and the replaced pump wasn't getting it cleared up. BTW: The new replacement pump seems to have the same rating as the previous pump BUT it seems to pump a lot less water. This is what got me to clean the filters thinking they just got clogged up. Didn't seem to make a huge difference, but I only did mechanical cleaning, no TSP soaking as I have to get a large plastic garbage pail for this still.

    Also noticed there was no chlorine tablets in the floating frog (don't know when it ran out either), but I'd guess a couple of weeks.

    Found this forum and at least cleaned my filters (ugh, nasty), cleanup the leaves in the bottom, ran the pump and noticed that it was way less than clear water. Found the floater empty of chlorine tablets and put 3 into with max opening in it. Added a gallon of bleach to get things heading in the right direction. Luckily it's pretty chilly and I don't think it's going to get away from me in any hurry. Now it's been cold enough at night to leave frost, but warms to 60 during the day, so it's not all that warm out. Don't have a pool thermometer yet either.

    Not sure if I should get the K-2006 or K-2006c kit but I will pick one of them up. Suggestions welcome as I don't know which to get.

    Went in for the first time to Leslie's Pool today to at least get an idea of my water chemistry.

    FAC 1.5
    TAC 1.5
    CH 500 ppm
    CYA 100 ppm
    TA 100
    pH 7.6
    TDS 500
    Phos 300

    Looks like a water change to get CYA under 100 and phosphates down. Don't have a clue on how to drain any water from the pool it does not appear to have any overflow drain. The piping on the side of the house is a maze of pipes of which I'm starting to have a clue on what they may connect to doesn't look like the spa can be separately heated. The ancient water heater is likely a fire hazard and won't be used.

    Water is currently clearing (I think) with a slight cloudy appearance and looks much better than 4 days ago. The sides of the pool seem to have a green ting and brushing them has 'stuff' coming off. So I believe I have algae, but the filter wasn't green with slime either.

    1. Ideally I'd like to keep the algae from getting a foot hold as we look at the pool from the house when we eat.
    2. Get to know my system and get reasonable chlorine levels with bleach
    3. Figure out how to make the system quieter so my neighbor is happier with us. The boost pump seems to be the main source, but the WhisperFlow isn't all that quiet either. The spa pump won't be used (certainly not until summer).

    The pool calculator (nifty tool) suggests 5.1 bottles of bleach to get to 11 ppm (or should I go for a shock level???).

    Thanks in advance.

    Here is what it looked like on Dec 31st, currently the bottom is looking much better. Too dark to get another picture tonight.



    Mark
    24k Gallon, Plastered in ground pool with attached spa
    Pentair 420 cartridge filter with 3HP variable speed Pentair 011018
    Solar panels
    EasyTouch8 with IC40 salt cell
    Aquabot Rapids 4WD

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    Welcome to TFP!

    Sounds like you are getting a good handle on things. I would suggest ordering the TF100 kit as it comes with more if the reagent you need thus lasts longer ... as well as coming with an 18 month warranty. (Full disclosure, seller of the kit also owns this forum, but the customer service really is outstanding).

    Once you have a kit, then do a full set of tests and post them to determine the path forward. Any bleach you add new might hold the algae at bay, but without the FAS-DPD, you will likely be eating some money by trying to blindly stay at shock level. Also realize the pH test is not valid when the FC is greater than 10 ppm.

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    Welcome to TFPool!

    Everything jbizzle said is a +1 from me, also you need to start shocking your pool, as Algae already has a foothold. Note this link pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock which determines the correct FC levels for your CYA which in this case is Min 7ppm and a shock of 39ppm, but the CYA could be higher than 100ppm, as we don't know if the pool store can test above that or indeed if it is even accurate, get the TF100, start getting your own accurate results and stop using the pool store for results once you do as there results can be wildly inaccurate.
    Stuart Murray
    Scotland UK
    UK NPPOC

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    OK, I'll get the TF100, the East coast link for TF100 has XL, borate and salt.... the west coast link does not, nor does it have replacement reagents. (Or it's well hidden).

    I want to get the chlorine levels to at least hold things at bay while I await the kit. Bleach seems cheap enough but I just noticed I got 3% stuff... guess that's why it was only $1 per jug.
    24k Gallon, Plastered in ground pool with attached spa
    Pentair 420 cartridge filter with 3HP variable speed Pentair 011018
    Solar panels
    EasyTouch8 with IC40 salt cell
    Aquabot Rapids 4WD

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    Here is what it looks like today. Picked up a new brush last night and did a little cleaning, you can see it on the lower left on the steps and bottom.



    Thanks.
    24k Gallon, Plastered in ground pool with attached spa
    Pentair 420 cartridge filter with 3HP variable speed Pentair 011018
    Solar panels
    EasyTouch8 with IC40 salt cell
    Aquabot Rapids 4WD

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    Main distributor for the TF100 is on the east coast. XL might be a good option since you will need to go through the shock process. Also the Speedstir is highly recommended.

    No need for the borates or salt tests unless you have a SWG or plan to add borates (completely optional)

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    Figured long term I'll go the borate route and perhaps salt with a chlorine generator. I guess it would be best to wait on these parts of the test kit as they have a shelf life and who knows when I'll get around to it as I'm still reading (and reading). . .

    Ideally I build a Raspberry Pi web interface controlled pool system as the ones they have for sale seem rather over priced for what you get but this is a far future project.
    24k Gallon, Plastered in ground pool with attached spa
    Pentair 420 cartridge filter with 3HP variable speed Pentair 011018
    Solar panels
    EasyTouch8 with IC40 salt cell
    Aquabot Rapids 4WD

  8. Back To Top    #8
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    Quote Originally Posted by mhoy
    I'm a new home owner that happened to get a pool with it. I've very new to pools and this seems like a great forum for advice and such. Been doing a bunch of reading on the site and some of it is even starting to make sense. Here comes a long story....
    Same story as me except mine is my father-in-laws pool about 1.5 miles from my house.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhoy
    Recently the main pump for the WhisperFlo failed, luckily I had a home owner insurance with the new purchase and got it replaced for $65. However in the meantime between unpacking and Christmas two weeks went by with little maintenance and a couple of winter storms, a fair bit of leaves stayed in the pool for a couple of weeks (no cover). After Christmas noticed the pool was looking pretty shabby and the replaced pump wasn't getting it cleared up. BTW: The new replacement pump seems to have the same rating as the previous pump BUT it seems to pump a lot less water. This is what got me to clean the filters thinking they just got clogged up. Didn't seem to make a huge difference, but I only did mechanical cleaning, no TSP soaking as I have to get a large plastic garbage pail for this still.
    Did you photograph the label of the old pump? If it just says the same HP it may not be the same at all. The Service Factor (SF) is very important - essentially you multiply the HP rating by the SF to determine if pumps match in specs. So a 1HP SF 1.5 is the same duty cycle as a 1.5HP SF 1.0; both score a 1.5 when you multiply things out. Does the WhisperFlo pump itself have any numbers on it? If you can supply that info and the info from the pump we can determine if the pump motor matches the pumps requirements.

    Other low flow contributing factors (as you correctly assumed) would be dirty filters, clogged pipes, partially closed suction valves, partially closed return valves, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhoy
    Also noticed there was no chlorine tablets in the floating frog (don't know when it ran out either), but I'd guess a couple of weeks.
    Is this the FROG system or just an empty shell that you put standard Trichlor tablets in?


    Quote Originally Posted by mhoy
    Went in for the first time to Leslie's Pool today to at least get an idea of my water chemistry.

    FAC 1.5
    TAC 1.5
    CH 500 ppm
    CYA 100 ppm
    TA 100
    pH 7.6
    TDS 500
    Phos 300

    Looks like a water change to get CYA under 100 and phosphates down. Don't have a clue on how to drain any water from the pool it does not appear to have any overflow drain.
    CYA result maxes at 100. Take another sample to them and mix 50/50 pool water and tap water and see what that result is for CYA - the other items you can ignore on that test. IGNORE the phosphates - totally bogus worry. There are people here who have a high phosphate level (10-100x what you have) that do not have problems with Algae because they use adequate chlorine.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhoy
    The piping on the side of the house is a maze of pipes of which I'm starting to have a clue on what they may connect to doesn't look like the spa can be separately heated. The ancient water heater is likely a fire hazard and won't be used.
    If you can post pictures it will help - we may be able to confirm or expand on what you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhoy
    Water is currently clearing (I think) with a slight cloudy appearance and looks much better than 4 days ago. The sides of the pool seem to have a green ting and brushing them has 'stuff' coming off. So I believe I have algae, but the filter wasn't green with slime either.
    Shock the pool using the BBB process others mentioned. If confused look at Pool School and read it a few times - at least the parts about chlorine and cya and shocking. After that come back with any specific questions and you'll be a pro in no time.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhoy
    1. Ideally I'd like to keep the algae from getting a foot hold as we look at the pool from the house when we eat.
    See shocking in pool school - it works great and you're on the right path by asking about how to do things here.
    Quote Originally Posted by mhoy
    2. Get to know my system and get reasonable chlorine levels with bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by mhoy
    3. Figure out how to make the system quieter so my neighbor is happier with us. The boost pump seems to be the main source, but the WhisperFlow isn't all that quiet either. The spa pump won't be used (certainly not until summer).
    First - the booster will be LOUD if the Polaris is not connected and you run it. Otherwise you might have to build a small equipment shed over the equipment (vented) to reduce the sound.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhoy
    The pool calculator (nifty tool) suggests 5.1 bottles of bleach to get to 11 ppm (or should I go for a shock level???).
    Shock it.

    You'll be so happy with how clear you get the pool you won't know what hit you.

    Two more things:

    1) To drain - use a siphon if you have adequate drainage area lower than the pool water level you want to get to. Alternately a sump pump works.
    2) If you need to drain (which you do) find out about your water table and determine if floating the pool is a risk. If so you need to either drain small amounts multiple times - or use a tarp or plastic sheet to isolate the old water from the new and drain from under the tarp while filling on top of the tarp. This keeps the weight of the pool constant while allowing you to get rid of the CYA laden water.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    UnderWaterVanya, thanks for the detailed reply, I'll build up the answers to most/all of this tonight/tomorrow. Didn't know there was a FROG system, my frog is just a plastic topper for floating tablets holder. Brilliant idea on the tarp. The Polaris is always connected (at least until the summer).

    I've the same motor on the spa as what was once on the pool so I can take a picture tomorrow and post the SF numbers. If they are different I'll be bugging them about it.
    24k Gallon, Plastered in ground pool with attached spa
    Pentair 420 cartridge filter with 3HP variable speed Pentair 011018
    Solar panels
    EasyTouch8 with IC40 salt cell
    Aquabot Rapids 4WD

  10. Back To Top    #10
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    Quote Originally Posted by mhoy
    UnderWaterVanya, thanks for the detailed reply, I'll build up the answers to most/all of this tonight/tomorrow.
    Cool - glad it helped.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhoy
    Brilliant idea on the tarp.
    Can't take credit, but I have seen a thread where it was actually demonstrated to work with brown nasty water - really interesting to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhoy
    I've the same motor on the spa as what was once on the pool so I can take a picture tomorrow and post the SF numbers. If they are different I'll be bugging them about it.
    Good plan. Sometimes mistakes are made - a motor is ordered that is wrong and put in anyway by someone who isn't as well informed as they think they are. More likely however is that the filters were gummed up. Do you have pressure readings from before and after the motor replacement?
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    New pump: SF 1.40 x 1 HP = 1.4
    Old pump: SF 1.65 x 1 HP = 1.65

    Yep new pump is less powerful then old pump with about 18% difference (1.65/1.4).
    24k Gallon, Plastered in ground pool with attached spa
    Pentair 420 cartridge filter with 3HP variable speed Pentair 011018
    Solar panels
    EasyTouch8 with IC40 salt cell
    Aquabot Rapids 4WD

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    I think I missed the discussion about the pump/motor sizes, but if the new motor is smaller than the old motor and you did not reduce the impeller size, the motor will be overworked with shortened life expectancy.

    If the entire motor and pump were replaced ... Then disregard my concern.

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    Thanks for the info. Only the motor was replaced and I now know enough to call back and hopefully get it addressed.
    24k Gallon, Plastered in ground pool with attached spa
    Pentair 420 cartridge filter with 3HP variable speed Pentair 011018
    Solar panels
    EasyTouch8 with IC40 salt cell
    Aquabot Rapids 4WD

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    Overview of the pipes (which are on the side of our house with 5.5' from house to fence).


    Close up with red text on what I think most of the pipes do:


    1. from skimmer
    2. to pump
    3. from pump (to valve T to solar and heater)
    4. unknown
    ? unknown valve

    5. Air for SPA
    6. from SPA
    7. to SPA
    8. boost to pool
    9. to booster pump
    10. back to pool
    11. back to pool
    24k Gallon, Plastered in ground pool with attached spa
    Pentair 420 cartridge filter with 3HP variable speed Pentair 011018
    Solar panels
    EasyTouch8 with IC40 salt cell
    Aquabot Rapids 4WD

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    How is your spa water filtered?

    The unknown valve is a suction line. Some things that it could be:
    -Pool floor drain
    -spa drain (if there is a 2nd line for the jet pump)
    -dedicated suction cleaner (would connect to a single port in the wall)

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    Thanks for the possible answers. The spa over flows into the pool. It has two round 'things' in the bottom and a number of jets on the side. When I turn on the spa pump draws from 6 and returns via 7 with air being drawn down tube 5.

    I'm betting on pool floor, I'll give it a try tomorrow and see if any sediment near there moves.

    Progress is occurring on the green water, but I'm shooting a bit in the dark as the test kit will not arrive until this coming week.
    24k Gallon, Plastered in ground pool with attached spa
    Pentair 420 cartridge filter with 3HP variable speed Pentair 011018
    Solar panels
    EasyTouch8 with IC40 salt cell
    Aquabot Rapids 4WD

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    An additional issue is the noise from the booster pump. I believe part of this is flow restriction from the input pipe. I moved the pump slightly toward the wall since this picture which have removed a bit of the kink. I'm thinking of adding a 45 plastic elbow so that the line has better flow. There is also a rattling noise while the main pump is running that may be coming from the heater or near there. I'll probably just remove the ancient heater and put a copper U onto the current pipes for now.

    24k Gallon, Plastered in ground pool with attached spa
    Pentair 420 cartridge filter with 3HP variable speed Pentair 011018
    Solar panels
    EasyTouch8 with IC40 salt cell
    Aquabot Rapids 4WD

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    It tends to be hard to see/feel the floor drain working. What does the bottom of your skimmer look like. .. 1 or 2 holes/pipes? Some pools have the floor drain plumbed to the skimmer and then from the skimmer to the pump. If you only have 1 pipe, then that likely means the mystery pipe goes to the floor.

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    Skimmer only has one hole in the bottom. The mystery pipe likely goes to the floor drain as a lot of leaves and crud came in as the handle to the Jandy three way broke/came off.... had to kind of guess where the flow is for getting it back to the skimmer. I can already see pool maintenance will be a endless fun time.

    I think some of the noise is coming from some air getting in on the seal to the clean out of the WhisperFlo pump. I've plenty of food grade silicone lube from some espresso machine rebuilds (if I can only find it in one of the moving boxes ).

    edit: At least found the silicone, but it didn't seem to make much if any difference...
    \edit
    24k Gallon, Plastered in ground pool with attached spa
    Pentair 420 cartridge filter with 3HP variable speed Pentair 011018
    Solar panels
    EasyTouch8 with IC40 salt cell
    Aquabot Rapids 4WD

  20. Back To Top    #20
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Also new here, need some advice

    Is there more air now that the handle broke and you don't know what the valve position is?

    Sent via Tapatalk...
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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