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Thread: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

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    HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    I finally got my TF100 kit today and have been able to make some more dependable readings. The outcome of a complete set of tests were:

    pH 7.3
    FC 8
    CC 0.5
    TC 8.5
    TA 120
    CH 170
    CYA 20

    After doing some stick tests last week the TA was showing 240+ and I have been working on the MA/aeration process to some success. A couple of days ago the water turned green so I added some liquid chlorine (FC from 3 to 8).

    The three problems I can see are:
    1. High TA
    2. Algae issue &
    3. Low CYA

    Can someone give me a plan of attack to fix the above and get a sparkly clear balanced pool.

    My current thinking is:

    1. Add CYA to raise to 70-80ppm
    2. Then Shock with liquid chlorine (assume cant do this till CYA have been raised??)
    3. Continue with the acid/aeration to further reduce the TA.

    I would appreciate the advice as this is the my first pool and quite a newbie.

    Thanks.
    55,000L kidney shape, concrete + 3M Colourquartz finish "Quartzon" + TF100 Test Kit
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    y_not's Avatar
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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    First off, I'm assuming that this is a SWCG pool, being that you have such a high CYA target?
    If not, that's much, much too high of a CYA target. No more than 50ppm, shoot for 30ppm if you don't live in a crazy hot, all the time, all sun climate like AZ. Otherwise go to 40 and see how your CL consumption does.

    CYA is easy in, drain and waste water to get out. It doesn't evaporate.

    As for shocking the pool, that would be advisable since you have had algae and don't really know if it's gone for sure.
    Since it's winter time and your loss to sunlight (UV) will be low, also due to low water temps. Leave your CYA where it is. As the more CYA, the more chlorine it takes to shock your pool. *See chart in PSchool.
    Maybe bump it up to 30ppm, assuming your CYA test was done properly. Water sample at >70F, outdoors in the sun with your back to it, sight vial at waist level.
    But no more than that, lest you end up spending a ton of money on CL at those higher CYA levels.

    When you add CYA, use the powder, also called stabilizer. It's a fine, white granular product, so almost a powder. Place the required amount based on PSchool's calculations in a sock, tie it to a ladder. Squeeze periodically. Takes about a day or so to dissolve.
    CYA works right away once fully dissolved, but doesn't show up on tests for up to a week. In some cases sooner.

    Your pH is good to start the shock process, in the low 7s.

    Don't worry about any of the other numbers until you are done shocking your pool.

    Read all the shocking your pool articles in PSchool, follow all the links in them.

    Post back here as to your progress. It's important to keep on it once you start it, ESPECIALLY early on in the process when the CL demand is highest. You'll need to set aside time to tend to it, have bleach/liquid CL on hand. We recommend having double the amt. on hand that it takes to bring to shock level from current.
    Do not count the CCs in your base reading for PSchool's calculator.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    Firstly, my apologies I haven't given enough information. I am located in Sydney, Australia (profile updated) so it is summer here at the moment and just entering the peak pool season.

    Yes, I do have a salt pool so I am working on the pool school recommendation of CYA 70 to 80.

    When I look at the shock process it only has SWG recommended Cl levels for CYA at 70 or 80 ppm. In other words I have no idea how much Cl to target during shock until I get the CYA up to 70. If the CYA takes a week to register on a test does that mean I need to wait 5 days after CYA dosing until I do the Shocking?

    Sorry for all the questions but I appreciate the help.
    55,000L kidney shape, concrete + 3M Colourquartz finish "Quartzon" + TF100 Test Kit
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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    Can someone give me a plan of attack to fix the above and get a sparkly clear balanced pool.
    1. Forget your CYA level until you have a clear pool, which will involve the shock process.

    2. For now, disregard your TA as well. You can adjust it later, if need be.

    3. Bring your FC up to around 12ppm or so (consult the FC/CYA chart) and KEEP IT THERE until your pool is sparkling clear and you have completed every step in the shock process.

    3a. Do not count on your SWG to provide the additional FC you need for the shock process.....use liquid bleach.

    4. Once you have completed the shock process, (do exactly as the article in Pool School describes), then you can bring your CYA up to around 70 and then keep your FC in the 3-5ppm range.
    Dave S.
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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexyboy
    Can someone give me a plan of attack to fix the above and get a sparkly clear balanced pool.
    3a. Do not count on your SWG to provide the additional FC you need for the shock process.....use liquid bleach.
    I would add to this and mainly clarify that in fact you should simply shutdown and unplug your SWCG from, how do they say down there, the mains? Well power/AC here anyway.
    It'll interfere with your measurements, giving false indications of reduced CL demand. Since it's sitting there dumping it in your pool if it's running.

    Do you know our bleach cost /CL oz. calculation formula?
    Remember to only use unscented bleach and no outdoor bleaches. These foam and make nasty stuff!
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    OK. This morning I tested the FC (7) and used the Pool Calculator to determine the added liquid chlorine to get FC to 12. I added 2200mL of chlorine and turned off the SWG. I also gave the sides a bit of a brush down.

    I am working at the moment but will test and dose again on my return.

    I'll keep you posted.
    55,000L kidney shape, concrete + 3M Colourquartz finish "Quartzon" + TF100 Test Kit
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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    It is good to test again 30min after you add the 1st dose. This gives you an idea of CL demand, as well as giving you a chance to add more before it depletes any further. Then you move it out to an hour, 2 hours and so on. So long as the loss is decreasing proportionately to the amount of time you are waiting in between addition of CL and testing.

    The harder you stay on it and keep those drops to a minimum, the less bleach you'll use and the less time it'll take overall.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    y_not gave good advice, but if you can't test within 30 mins don't fret over it. In fact, part of the reason Pool School recommends not less than one hour intervals is that most pools won't fully dilute the chlorine in 30 mins and you could get incorrect test results depending on where you collect the sample in relation to where you add the chlorine. In the very beginning the FC is being used up very quickly but just to be safe an hour is the recommended interval in the beginning.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    I have been shocking the pool now for two days and not seeing any progress. I have been testing and dosing chlorine every two hours and ensuring that the FC does not drop below shock level.

    I did another CYA test to see if I was a bit out on the first one. I don't think I was far out on the first test (20), but it is certainly no higher than 30ppm. Just in case I have been holding the FC at 14.

    In short the pool does not seem any clearer each day. I will keep dosing the pool for the next two days and hope to see some results to give me a little encouragement. BTW the FC does not drop more that 0.5 overnight which seems strange for a very green pool (can't see the bottom of deep end).

    Latest test results:

    pH 7.2
    FC 15
    CC 0.5
    TC 15.5
    TA 110

    Thanks.
    55,000L kidney shape, concrete + 3M Colourquartz finish "Quartzon" + TF100 Test Kit
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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexyboy
    BTW the FC does not drop more that 0.5 overnight which seems strange for a very green pool (can't see the bottom of deep end).
    Just to be sure, you did turn off the SWG?

    And the pump is on 24/7?

    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    Yes the SWG is off but the pump is on from 6:30am till 8:30pm due to noise.

    I also back flushed and added a couple of cups of DE to the sand filter to help catch a bit more algae.

    Thanks.
    55,000L kidney shape, concrete + 3M Colourquartz finish "Quartzon" + TF100 Test Kit
    Watermaid EZ300 SWG
    Tru Pool Fine Sand Filter
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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    That's a little odd. I would expect at least a few days (up to a week) before clearing, but I would expect faster progress in that the pool should turn milky pretty quickly.

    Keep it at shock level and keep us posted.

    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    Except when doing the overnight loss testing, keeping the SWG ON is not a problem in my view. It helps keep the levels up which is good. I do agree that when checking overnight loss the SWG needs to be turned off.

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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexyboy
    Yes the SWG is off but the pump is on from 6:30am till 8:30pm due to noise.

    I also back flushed and added a couple of cups of DE to the sand filter to help catch a bit more algae.

    Thanks.
    That would be why your OCLT comes back with such a low loss of CL. Since your pump isn't running, it's not circulating the water. So you'll have spots of high loss and spots of low loss. In fact the whole process takes much much longer and you'll use a lot more bleach keeping your pump off that long. That's almost 1/2 a day.
    What happens while it's off is that the bleach dissipates, or nearly in some areas and since there's no water moving to distribute CL evenly, then you give algae a chance to grow again in those pockets.
    Thus loosing much ground.

    Is the noise of the pump something that the neighbors are complaining about, or is it bothersome inside your house?
    Can you construct some sort of sound absorbing barrier around it? Egg cartons work well for this. But do it in such a way that you don't suffocate the pump and overheat it.

    Be sure not to backwash your filter too much. Only when the pressure reaches 25% above its clean starting pressure. Them you have to add DE again. Only a 1 to 2psi pressure rise for the DE.

    I would also suggest popping open your sand filter, inspecting the sand bed for channeling and then cleaning it. See my sig for a how to.

    Also be sure you are brushing the pool to break up the algae and it's defensive, chlorine resistant bio film.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    OK, all noted. I will leave the filter on tonight and see how things progress in the morning.

    I will not have time to check the filter tomorrow but that sounds like a job for next weekend.

    I am starting to think I have some 'rogue trifid' algae going on in the pool. I am losing the faith, my brother had a similar issue, went to the local pool shop, dumped in some " shock" and algecide and all food in a couple of days. Don't fail me good science.

    (I have updated my sig with a few more details if of value)

    Thanks.
    55,000L kidney shape, concrete + 3M Colourquartz finish "Quartzon" + TF100 Test Kit
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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    OK...i'll give some unorthodox advice. Fill a large (5 gal/20 l) white bucket with pool water...the water should still have a nice green tint to it. Pour in a cup of bleach and mix with a stick. Check the bucket in 1hr and if it is algae, the water in the bucket should at least have lost it's green tint. If the bucket sample fails to turn milky white/clear, then I'm afraid you are dealing with perhaps a combination of metals/poor filtration.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by dmanb2b
    OK...i'll give some unorthodox advice. Fill a large (5 gal/20 l) white bucket with pool water...the water should still have a nice green tint to it. Pour in a cup of bleach and mix with a stick. Check the bucket in 1hr and if it is algae, the water in the bucket should at least have lost it's green tint. If the bucket sample fails to turn milky white/clear, then I'm afraid you are dealing with perhaps a combination of metals/poor filtration.
    We have had others try that and despite pools that you could not see 4 inches into, the bucket looked clear.

    Sent via Tapatalk...
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
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    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
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  18. Back To Top    #18
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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderWaterVanya
    Quote Originally Posted by dmanb2b
    OK...i'll give some unorthodox advice. Fill a large (5 gal/20 l) white bucket with pool water...the water should still have a nice green tint to it. Pour in a cup of bleach and mix with a stick. Check the bucket in 1hr and if it is algae, the water in the bucket should at least have lost it's green tint. If the bucket sample fails to turn milky white/clear, then I'm afraid you are dealing with perhaps a combination of metals/poor filtration.
    We have had others try that and despite pools that you could not see 4 inches into, the bucket looked clear.

    Sent via Tapatalk...

    Ignore my suggestion

    To Rexyboy, please have your water tested for metals while you continue to maintain shock level. If you are in fact at shock level, you should be seeing day to day improvement, even with poor circulation. Something else seems to be going on, especially if you are able to hold FC overnight.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    I left the pump run over night and did a overnight chlorine test. The results were 14.5 at 9:30pm and 14.0 at 5:30am. Seems like a small drop off.

    Is it possible that the water is green for a reason other than algae? What is the option being mentioned with metals? How would that then be treated?

    I will continue to maintain the current FC level.

    Thanks.
    55,000L kidney shape, concrete + 3M Colourquartz finish "Quartzon" + TF100 Test Kit
    Watermaid EZ300 SWG
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  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: HELP: Pool Balance Issues

    The more I think about it the more I think it is algae. It definitely has been settling on the walls and floors. When you sweep the surfaces you get a cloud of 'algae' in front of the brush.

    For some reason it just doesn't seem to be responding to or using much chlorine. Is it worth trying taking the FC level much higher? I am currently targeting 14-15, should I look at 20+???

    Thanks again.
    55,000L kidney shape, concrete + 3M Colourquartz finish "Quartzon" + TF100 Test Kit
    Watermaid EZ300 SWG
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