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Thread: Total rebuild due, need lots of input

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    Total rebuild due, need lots of input

    This posting is a copy of me trying to get help/info from Pentair web site and they recomended that i post here..........I am looking for help on what equipment would be a good replacement for my pool: 27k-30k gal. a 400-600 gal. attached spa. Purex 48sq.ft. filter 96 g.p.m. with 1 1/2hp. pump. Power supply 220. Laars Teledyne 325,000 btu heater (which was to heat entire pool and spa setup that i think needs to be much smaller to heat just the spa) Vacuum line / skimmer is 2" return line is 1 1/2" - 1 1/4" - 1" main drain 1 1/2" this equip./pool was installed 1975. So needless to say entire pool needs to be refurb but still functions ok, but with triple the cost of original install to have pool company refurb. i am trying to do as much myself as possible. I plan on replacing coping/skimmer/tile/plaster and concrete decking so if i need to upgrade piping i can. Any input would be useful. Thanks
    Yes they do want a dbl drain. Is the 3" for both drain/skimmer? and the return lines till they enter the gunite then down to 3/4" or 1"? Doing the 3" would mean cutting from main drain to the skimmer to do things right, yes? I am a patient person, that is partly why it is taking so long for me to decide on who/what and when to get this going. I like all of what Pentair has to offer, i have been using Kreepy since they came out although now i would like to get away from the suck side to the push with out a booster pump i wish we could send them all our info on our pools and then they could work up a range of equip that would be recommended and up to over kill. Have not decided if going to salt vs chlorine tabs is truly cost worthy. Now with the new intelli's the power goes to the pump and controls all functions of the pool? accept the pool light. No need for time clocks?
    15' wide x30' long x 4.5' deep vinyl above ground, 13,500 gallons, hayward dream line sand filter, hayward power-flo lx pump 1.0 hp, lil shark cleaner

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Total rebuild due, need lots of input

    Welcome to TFP.

    Where are you located?

    Changing the main drain to VGB compliant drains is the only thing you have to do. You can make it compliant other than installing dual drains but that's the best way to do it.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Total rebuild due, need lots of input

    I am in the San Francisco Bay area
    15' wide x30' long x 4.5' deep vinyl above ground, 13,500 gallons, hayward dream line sand filter, hayward power-flo lx pump 1.0 hp, lil shark cleaner

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Total rebuild due, need lots of input

    I can not really follow the post due to formatting, and know you are looking for plumbing info, but will offer this:

    The cost of SWG vs. liquid chlorine seems to be about the same over a 5ish year period ... kind of depends on how long the cell lasts. The SWG just reduces the number of bottles of bleach you have to be carrying around. Generally, we do not recommend tablets as they add chlorine and stabilizer. The chlorine is consumed, the stabilizer builds up in the water. Eeentually the stabilizer is so high the tablets will not maintain an adequate level of chlorine related to the stabilizer level and the pool will turn green and require draining.

    Read through Pool School a few times to better understand the chemistry.

    BTW, 3" seems larger than most pools require. It will just cost a little, but will offer lower headloss and thus give you higher flow rates. Best to run the floor drain(s) and the skimmer separatly to the pad to offer better control, if you are tearing everything up. Likely though, your plumbing sound just fine. My 70s pool only had a single 1.5" suction line from the skimmer (floor tied to skimmer) and it worked fine. There is really no need to be moving a lot of water in and out of the pool, unless you have a water feature. Low speed on 2-speed pumps saves a lot of $ on electricity

    Also, generally the largest heater you can buy is the best solution, even for the spa. It takes basically the same about of gas ($) to raise the water a certain temperature delta independant of the heater size. The larger heater (assuming the gas line is sized appropriately) will just get it heater up faster ... which is nice if you want to use it in the winter on short notice.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: Total rebuild due, need lots of input

    Is the formatting coming from what i send?
    Anyway thanks for responding info, all is helpful, i do agree some with the tab issue but have been able to make the adjustments without having to completely draining the pool, i have used tabs for at least 90% of the time, i service the pool myself and have done so since 75.
    Yes my skimmer and main drain are on a 1 1/2" line connected together, and yes i would prefer them to be separated plus i'll have to have 2 main drains for code issues, and i like the idea of 3" flow through on the pump for less $$$ to run on slow speed.
    My gas line is one fat sucker connected to a 350,000 BTU heater intended to heat whole pool but all i want it for now is to heat the spa and it is about 500-600 gallons, as for the size of equipment, i am trying to keep it as compact as possible but easy service/access.
    Would like to add that this pool has many black/brow eruptions/staining from the steel in the gunite which i have been told that need to be dug out and replaced, personally i can not see why when you are going to completely strip all plaster and redo,certainly they can just seal the gunite first then replaster. "rebar in gunite will always rust unless the rebar has been sealed" and while we are on rebar, i am planning on having the concrete decking redone, what do you think about not having coping and just have the concrete get a 1" bullnose over the pool, was thinking of rebar drilled and epoxy bonded to the top of pool/gunite edge and bend over 4' on 16" spacing with 4"-6" of crushed rock base?
    15' wide x30' long x 4.5' deep vinyl above ground, 13,500 gallons, hayward dream line sand filter, hayward power-flo lx pump 1.0 hp, lil shark cleaner

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Total rebuild due, need lots of input

    I'll take a stab at reformatting the original post and editing it with my changes in ().
    My answers will be outside the quotes.

    Quote Originally Posted by totaleclipser
    27k-30k gal. w/ 400-600 gal. attached spa.
    Purex 48sq.ft. filter, 96 g.p.m. (DE? Unclear but based on size that seems accurate)
    1 1/2hp. 220v pump motor (Service Factor not given, no info on pump itself just motor)
    Laars Teledyne 325,000 btu heater (combined for pool and spa; may be moving to spa only)
    Suction: 2" Vacuum & skimmer (Main drain connected via Skimmer today; wanting to split it out and go to dual mains)
    Main Drain: 1.5" to Skimmer ( I think )
    Returns: 1 1/2" - 1 1/4" - 1" (Unclear, but I think it starts as 1.5" at the pump and then splits and drops down in pipe size)
    Pool installed 1975.
    Quote Originally Posted by totaleclipser
    I plan on replacing coping/skimmer/tile/plaster and concrete decking so if i need to upgrade piping i can. Any input would be useful. Thanks
    Read up on bond beam and how the beam needs to be disconnected from decking before proceeding with the plans you mentioned in another post. Coping is preferred since it isolates the pool from changes in the decking dimensions due to heating and cooling.

    Quote Originally Posted by totaleclipser
    They want a dbl drain.
    Who are "they" is this your pool or someone elses? Double drains are not required for circulation or regulatory reasons in most areas. Typically you just need a drain cover that is VBE compliant.

    Quote Originally Posted by totaleclipser
    Is the 3" (acceptable) for both drain/skimmer?
    (Is 3" OK for) ...the return lines till they enter the gunite then down to 3/4" or 1"?
    Doing the 3" would mean cutting from main drain to the skimmer to do things right, yes?
    You can always have larger pipe but how much it will help is unclear at present. There are some details on the number of returns and distances from the pool to the pad, number of elbows, etc that would be helpful to have. Look at this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by totaleclipser
    (I) have been using Kreepy since they came out although now i would like to get away from the (suction)... side to (a pressure side cleaner).
    Do you need some advice on this? There are a number of thoughts on what type of cleaner to use. Pool school has some info here.


    Quote Originally Posted by totaleclipser
    Have not decided if going to salt vs chlorine tabs is truly cost worthy.
    If the choice is 3" pucks vs. SWG - do the SWG - it reduces the potential for trouble down the line. The pucks add CYA and over time that can build. If you do an SWG you will not need any weekly shocking if you follow the recommedations here. If you use bleach the SWG vs. bleach is about even over time - but if you compare to pucks the pucks plus algaecide plus weekly shocking etc will be much more costly than using an SWG based on recommendations here. See Pool School for more info.

    Quote Originally Posted by totaleclipser
    Now with the new intelli's the power goes to the pump and controls all functions of the pool? (except)... the pool light. (If I have this type of system do I) need... (separate) time(rs)?
    I don't know much about this system. Sorry.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Total rebuild due, need lots of input

    Quote Originally Posted by totaleclipser
    Is the formatting coming from what i send?
    Yes - the format of the original post is information dense and a little confusing. I have attempted to reformat your post to make it easier to digest. Let me know if I altered the meaning or misread you.

    One thing you could to do to help others is read the Pool School part about "before you post" and the info in there about your signature. I've taken what I can from your original post and formatted it in a way that would work as a signature below. This assumes your filter is DE if it isn't, please update the proposed signature below with the correct type. You should also clarify how many returns you have and what sizes they are but you also need to keep it short in the signature as you are limited to 5 lines. Lastly you should edit your profile and add your location there or add a location to your signature so that people understand your situation better. I think you mentioned you are in Florida, I added it to the example signature below but the profile is just as good if you prefer.

    27k-30k gal. In ground Gunite w/ 400-600 gal. attached spa built in 1975 located in ??? Florida;
    Purex 48sq.ft. DE filter, 96 g.p.m. 1 1/2hp. 220v pump motor; Laars Teledyne 325,000 btu heater;
    dedicated 2" suction line for Kreepy Crawley Vac, Skimmer & Main Drain connected together (2" line to pump);
    1.5" Return(s) to pool; Return(s) drop down to 1" openings in Gunite.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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