shocking headache

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Where are you going to get the sample tested? Their kit it's likely no better than what you have.

Forget the pH. It does not have anything to do with clearing the pool.

Also realize that cal-hypo can actually make the water cloudy as well sometimes.

Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short ;)
 
the place where i have the water tested is the same place i bought the kit :cry:
looks like i'm out of luck in getting an accurate high count on CC, TC and FC.
Yes adding a second dose to bolster or maintain the shock level did increase the cloudiness, but it looked like it was temporary and the cloudiness was rather a snow white appearance as opposed to a dull brown haze when the CC's being to predominate.
But just from looking at the water, besides the cloudiness clearing up, it doesn't look too bad.
But yes, as TFP suggest, the shock must be maintained until ALL CC's are burned off ( break point reached).
This is now the 18th hour of reattempting the 2nd shock, all's well so far- keep fingers crossed.
i'll have to purchase a FAS DPD ( like the one you suggested earlier ) either when i fly back to Canada or somehow have Taylor ship it
 
Don't adjust your pH after you add high chlorine. Do it first. Then leave it alone during the shock process.

Also your DPD kit - are you sure it goes to 10 and not 5? Some measure CL on one side and BR on the other. The CL line is 0-5 and the Bromine is 0-10. If it's really 0-10 CL I'd be surprised.

Since you don't have FAS-DPD take a sample to the pool store if you want but they may not measure above 5-10 FC either.

You can try using your DPD test by prediluting your pool water with distilled water. If your shock value is 20, you will need to put 4 parts distilled water to 1 part pool water to give you a 5x times range - but it will be hard to read the difference between say 3 and 5 - which is the difference between 15 and 25. This will not be very precise but it's better than nothing. You can't really get anything accurate out of this and measuring CC's this way is pretty much useless. What I suggest is that you try to maintain the shock around 20 this way and after a few days of shocking if your water looks clear then you go a few more days and then let it drop until it is around 10 (using 1 part pool water and 1 part distilled water to test with a 2x range.) Run the OCLT test to see if you lose any FC - and test your CC's - hopefully you get zero CC's and "zero" clorine loss. You can't get close to the true 0.5ppm precision you need but it is better than a complete guess. Allow it drop further (if your CYA level permits it and you stay above minimum for your cya) until you are in the 0-5 range and then test OCLT and CC's again. If they still show zero or at minimum less than 1ppm of CC/or overnight losses then I'd say you are in the clear. You might want to keep your FC a bit higher than minimum and keep the CYA low enough that you can use the DPD test to see if you are on track.

Be forewarned if you get a ZERO FC result with the DPD test this can be a false reading. If the FC gets really high and you don't dilute the sample you will get very high readings showing up as colorless. In this case you have to retest with a more diluted solution to be sure it really is zero or use a pool store that you have had consistent results with. (Some can test high FC many cannot, most are not repeatable - the tests give different results each time they test...)
 
thanks for the reply...and your thoughts. yes, the high end of the test tube does max out at 10ppm. But the accuracy doesn't appear to be too accurate.
I will try your suggestion, diluting the sample with distilled water 1 to 4 parts ration with x5 factor ( if i got that right).
I will let you know the outcome :cheers:
 
Are there 2 methods of shocking? 1 method as prescribed say by the State of Indiana Pools Authority were they say:" it is like jumping the Grand Canyon. If you dump 19 lbs of CL instead of 20, you will MISS! and you will have to start all over but with a bigger mess on your hands"
They further go to say that all the Chloramines that were bonded to FC molecules will unbond and fall right back in the pool, hence the starting over with 20 or more lbs!
If they were correct in saying this would it be say to HOLD the 20 lbs content while shocking for as long as it takes (say 2 or 3 days) - maintaining the high level of the 20 lbs ?
and 2: if TC - FC = CC X 10 = the number in ppm of CL to shock. But if the CC are very very high say 10 ppm of CC that would mean 100 ppm of CL to reach the break point!!
I'd rather go the route as prescribe in the pool school where the pool calculator suggest a shock level even for algae (taking in account any current CYA levels).
Right now i am on the 2 day of shocking, dosing the pool 2x daily insuring the FC's are above 5.
Until i have the proper FAS test kit delivered to me. My current DPD test kits only indicated to me that i do have CC's .
So for right now, i will keep dosing twice daily until there is no chlorine demand ( not less than 1 ppm overnight)
Hopefully i am not on the 'back side ' of the 'Chlorine Demand - Breakpoint Shocking Graph Curve'
 
They don't know what they are talking about. They assume the 10x rule for breakpoint chlorination, but that rule is wrong (it's less than 1x for monochloramine and less than 3x for monochlorourea) and furthermore nothing gets stuck if you are too low. The place where it's important to MAINTAIN a high chlorine level is when killing algae because it continues to grow if you don't kill it all off at a faster rate. For maintenance, there is a magic FC/CYA ratio (active chlorine level) that kills algae faster than it can grow regardless of algae nutrient levels and that's the basis for the chlorine/CYA chart. However, for shocking, you need something high enough to kill faster and to overcome there being more algae not all readily exposed to water (i.e. algae clumps). So the shock level isn't so magical and is more of a guideline. What is most important is that it be MAINTAINED and not a one-shot dose since the chlorine during an algae bloom will get used up fairly quickly at which point algae can grow again when the chlorine gets too low.

Their statement about chloramines getting unbonded is complete and utter fantasy. Combined Chlorine (CC) stays combined unless 1) you use a reducing agent such as potassium iodide which is the R-0003 reagent in the CC test or 2) you oxidize the CC further by adding more chlorine. I suggest you stop reading the incorrect information which unfortunately permeates the pool industry. Someone decades ago made a unit-of-measurement error translating the 10x (7.6x plus side reactions) rule for breakpoint chlorination of ammonia (in ppm N units) by chlorine (in ppm Cl2 units) and misapplied it to CC which is in a different unit of measurement (it's in chlorine Cl2 units, not nitrogen N units) that is a factor of 5 different and that already contains one of the chlorine needed to ultimately oxidize it. Like lemmings, the pool industry has been touting this rule even though it's completely incorrect.

You DO want to maintain a higher FC level when shocking, but it has nothing to do with a specific "pounds" of chlorine. The initial dose will be larger, but how much chlorine is needed to maintain an FC level is mostly a function of how much material there is to oxidize and how much the pool is exposed to sunlight since the UV in sunlight breaks down chlorine as a percentage of how much is there (so higher FC levels have higher chlorine losses from sunlight).
 
Wow! Almost have to be chemist to steer a pool from ending in the ditch haha. Well thats a big relief!! I will stick to the guidelines FTP has stated in the pool school. Fortunately for me, i don't have algae, yet. And I am keeping a very close eye on the pool surfaces to see if it's trying to creep in while i am in the shock mode. This is the 2nd day now shocking, the water is only very slightly hazy. Until i get the FAS DPD kit, the current kit i have only suggests high levels or any levels of CC's. To be safe, i am keeping FC's up at 20's - 30's ppm ( no algae and CYA 10) and HOLDING that level for 2 days now and will hold until i can no longer test for CC's.
Cant wait until i get FAS DPD in my hands uuggh.
Thanks for schooling me ( always learning!!!) on the 'chemistry' in maintaining the pool :)
 
for the heck of it their link is : http://www.in.gov/isdh/files/How_To_Shock_The_Pool.pdf. Surprising to see that it comes from the State Of Indiana *chuckles*. On this 2nd day of shocking, the pool water ( when holding a wet hand to your nose) is beginning to smell less and less like chloramines. I am strikly using the Pool Calculator as a guideline (maybe to be safe - adding 7 ppm more CL (cal hypo 65%) as tho i had algae ( which i don't have at the moment) and slightly using a higher CYA calculation to be safe. i do taste often ( to be sure) the CYA levels
 

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that maybe... I will be keeping shock levels in the 30's (shocking for algae @ CYA 20) although its around 10. I am being quite aggressive on the FC side maintaining this high level of FC's. This is only the 2nd day into shocking, it is a good experiment, but so far the guidelines are according to the TFP's Shock methods:
1) maintain levels by adding at least twice daily, so that the levels don't dip passing thru the time of sun shining into the pool.
2) until all haze or water is clear and
3) until i get a CC reading less than 0.5 ppm.
i'm flying blind until i get an accurate FAS DPD kit. I think the Taylor kit has one which measures high C levels (50+ppm CL)
- This is what happens when you have 20 kids (poor and dirty) bathing (minus the soap) for 7 hrs into the pool.
The pool went from Baking Soda fresh smell ( a good level TA) near crystal clear water to a clogged filter , super cloudy water in just 7 hrs!
This is a good experiment for trial and error
I DONT want to use Triclor (despite the high 90% free CL) for it has CYA and i dont want to inadvertently raise the CYA when i dont need to.
its only a 7,500 gal. pool so its not a big deal on dumping kilos of chlorine in it.
The power plant is rebuilt and the sand is new. Don't forget, i'm trying to go from 0 mph to 100 in how many days? Its a big job for the plant and the chlorine to kill everything off. But ya, the biggest star of the show here would be a proper FAS DPD kit to properly monitor the garbage burn off and removal in the water!
 
If i might add: while i'm on my 2nd day shocking, i vacuum daily, empty and clean both skimmer & pump baskets, check pressure on a daily basis. i dont want the chlorine to be working overtime on garbage sitting in the baskets or on the pool floor.
i noticed however, the skimmer does pick up a lot of dust ( floating on the surface), bugs right into the filter n so on. Makes me wonder, even if the pressure doesn't rise by much, doesn't all that garbage slowly piling up in the filter contribute to CC"s? or cloudy water?
I experimented a little while ago by doing daily mini short backwash, just to dump whatever accumulated during the day out of the filter. With every backwash, the site glass was always a thick yellow brownish muck ( everyday). Is this the muck the result from all the dust debris getting pulled in daily and the chlorine trying to break it all down? Wouldn't it be wiser to remove the muck all together to aid the CL? Despite the fact that a backwash should only be done with an 8 to 10 psi diff.
Please note: when the daily muck being backwashed out a there, my water was always clear. I though then it was obvious the muck had to be from all the dust n stuff being pulled in by the skimmer - what else could it be if no swimmers are around?
 
Don't forget the third criteria, overnight chlorine loss of 1ppm or less.

Also, truth be told it doesn't really matter what is in the pool. Chlorine will take care of it.

Sent via Tapatalk...
 
Well this is going on the 3rd day of super chlorinating with cal-hypo 65%.. added 16 oz of it in a 7,500 gal pool.
water went from hazy before adding to really hazy at noon after adding the 16 oz.. Hmmm, do i have that much CC's i nthe water ??? or do i have very hi pH from adding the calhypo all the time?
Decided to try the left side this time.. This time I added 4 cups of MA and almost as i speak, or look at the water, i can see the water turn crystal clear :party: :whoot: :cheers: :goodjob:
Big lesson to learn ....
Yes have the water balance
but more importantly ... dont fly blind without a proper FAS DPD kit.
Even tho im out of the woods, I am still ordering the Taylor FAS DPD kit!!!!!
 
dolphin said:
Big lesson to learn ....
Yes have the water balance
but more importantly ... dont fly blind without a proper FAS DPD kit.
Even tho im out of the woods, I am still ordering the Taylor FAS DPD kit!!!!!
Click to expand...

Excellent!
You will not regret that decision.
 
Actually it really was a too high a pH. I noticed when i looked at the white drain in contrast to the dark tile. A snow white halo around it. I noticed that the halo was very white a snow white in appearance compared to a tan dirty like appearance. Thaats where i got to think that a high pH is precipitating the calcium out of the Cal Hypo.. The minute i added 16 oz of MA... just staring at the floor drain i can see the water begin to clear up. Within the hour the pool was almost completely clear.. So i was going the 'wrong way' thinking i had algae or chloramines in the pool. That evening i added 8 oz of MA. the next morning the water was crystal clear...
5 days later, to this day its still crystal clear.. Too bad tho, my CL ppm is thru the roof! I'm not playing with the water balance until the CL comes down so that i can adjust TA, pH, and take a look at the CH if the Cal hypo shot it thru the roof, although i still think i have alot of overhead clearance with CH remaining.
Big lesson learned!! a FAS DPD kit is an absolute must !! Would you fly blind into cloud with the proper equipment??
 

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