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Thread: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

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    DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    I need to replace my leaky 72 sq ft American Products stainless steel filter. I have a 40,000 gal pool (maybe a little bigger) with a salt system. I am thinking that this might also be a good time to replace my single speed 2hp whisper flo with a variable speed or two speed pump to save on electricity. The local pool store said Hayward is the only manufacturer that makes a 72 sq ft filter and this size is being phased out. He recommended that I just replace it with a 60 sq ft unit. Would a 60 sq ft filter work as well as a 72. I am worried if I downsize the flow rate wont be as good. Would this also effect the time it takes to heat the pool? Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    Read hydraulics 101 in the pumping station section. The second post in that thread suggests that a 40000 gallon pool needs approximately a 56 square foot DE filter. 60 should be fine


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    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    Thanks. I read the post and I am still confused. The sticker on my current filter says it can handle 216 gpm flow rate, if I downsize most 60 sq say they can handle 120 gpm. I'm not sure what my current pump puts out but it's way under 216 and probably above 120. I am assuming the pump will be less efficient with a smaller filter. Will this draw more energy? My electric bill last month was over 800.00. Keep in mind I live in So Cal and it has been unseasonable warm so I had to run my pool pump 10 hrs plus all the other household electronics.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    Actually, we typically recommend a DE filter that is double the size in that table. (Double for cartridge as well, but the same as the chart for sand).

    I have a 60 and your pool is double the size of mine .... of course it depends on the amount of debris you see and what kind of cleaner you use. If you do not use a suction cleaner you may be able to go a little smaller.

    Have you considered a large sand or cartridge filter?

    Also what makes you think you have flow rates that high? I think 50-70 is much more normal. Although if you have s large pump, large plumbing and low head loss, I suppose the higher rates are possible.

    Filters work better at the lower flee rates anyway. Do you have a need for such high flow?

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    I was just reading the flow rate that is posted on the filter. I can't believe the sticker is still on and readable considering it is 23 years old. I really know very little about this and I don't want to make a mistake with my purchase since my house seems to be sucking the money out of my bank faster then I make it.

    I live on top of a hill in the Santa Monica mountains and it can seem like I am in a wind tunnel sometimes so debris in the pool is always a problem. I also run a poolvernuegn pool sweeper (which works great) attached to this pump. I have three other old 2hp pumps for jacuzzi jets, and two waterfalls) which I rarely use. I haven't considered a cartridge or sand filter because I'm kinda of a germ o phobe and read DE filters clean better. Probably just need therapy for that but that's another story.

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    I had forgotten that the chart was not adjusted to TFP recommendations. Can he use two 60's in parallel?

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    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    What size pipes do you have? That same thread on hydraulics has a chart showing typical flow rates for various pipe sizes. To get a flow rate approaching the maximum for that filter you would need a rather extreme plumping system.

    Sent via Tapatalk...
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    Quote Originally Posted by msugar7275
    I haven't considered a cartridge or sand filter because I'm kinda of a germ o phobe and read DE filters clean better. Probably just need therapy for that but that's another story.
    I'm not sure I understand the logic here. The filter doesn't kill germs, it just filters out their "dead carcasses." It's the chlorine that does the job of killing. I do agree with the sentiment that DE does a good job of filtering the water, but I've read several posts here giving high praise for modern cartridge filters. The reduced maintenance on these kind of filters does hold some appeal.
    38K in ground pool with attached spa. Current equipment: Easytouch 8 (521150) with IC-60 SWCG with web control by Autelis, 1x Pentair IntelliFlo 011018 pump (for filter), 1x Pentair 2HP WhisperFlo pump (for waterfall), 2X Pentair IntelliBrite 5G 12V lights, Pentair MiniMax400 NG Heater, Pentair SMBW2060 DE filter. Zodiac Barracuda MX8 cleaner on dedicated cleaner line. Lighting/home automation controlled by Insteon/ISY-99i.

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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    I was joking with the germ thing, I just heard DE filters best. I did see a filter out there that is a hybrid DE/cartridge and comes in an 80 and 100 sq ft size but I heard the cartridges need to be replaced every few years and they are expensive. I'm not sure the piping size but the equipment I have always seems to work without a hassle. My initial fear is if I go down in size to a 60 sq ft. I will A) be cleaning it it more B) effect the flow rate that my heater and sweeper won't work as well and C) if I upgrade to a higher Hp variable pump it could be harmful to the small size new filter. The pump I am looking at is 3hp intelliflo and when we heat the pool or jacuzzi I'm told it operates at full speed. I will look it up but my current 2hp whisper flo probably moves the water a lot slower then the old filter is rated for. Thank you both for responding. I really appreciate the help.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    Based on your electric bill (not sure how much could really be due to the pump), you may be running it much more than actually required.

    Am I correct in reading that you have 4 pumps? (might be easier if you post up a picture of your equipment pad).

    For general circulation and filtration, you really do not need very high flow rate ... so the flow rate capability of the filter should not matter. Now this assumes that your plumbing is done such that the additional pumps for the jets and waterfalls are NOT run through the filter. You also do not have to run the VS pump on high speed for heating assuming you have a separate pump for the jets ... and generally the advantage of the VS pumps is to be able to run at lower speeds to save $ on electricity.

    I do not think we have a very clear idea of your actual setup to be able to offer relevant suggestions.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    The three other pumps I have (jacuzzi and two waterfalls) are independent from the heater, filter and pool sweep. They are on a totally separate system and are located in a separate part of my yard. Actually one of the waterfall pumps is being repaired today and I am going to replace the jacuzzi jet pump with my Whisper flo. Everything seemed to break at the same time.

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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    Also, I have been running the system 8-10 hrs a day because it has been in the 90s here most of Oct.

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    Christian's Avatar
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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    Pentair makes a filter called the Quad DE and it's a hybrid DE/Cartridge filter. If that is the one you're talking about it comes in a 100 sq foot model and it's a really great filter. It's the one I recommend over any other actually.

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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    Christian -- The guy at my local pool store said that the filter elements wear out quickly and are very expensive. He also said that unit can not be backwashed. Im not sure if he knows what he is talking about. How is the Hayward 72sq DE filter?

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    Christian's Avatar
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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    He doesn't know what he's talking about. The Quad system can be back-washed. The cartridges are more expensive than most but no more fragile that I have ever heard. Personally I don't recommend Hayward equipment.

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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    How long do the cartridges typically last? Does anyone make a decent 72sq DE filter anymore?

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    I just want to point out that you will likely find just as many people that would recommend Hayward products. Seems to be a very regional thing ... lots of Hayward in AZ ...

    Sticking with any of the major brands is a good idea.

    Remember, a 72 sqft DE is still smaller than we would typically recommend for a pool your size (which is on the large side, so adequate filters might be hard to find). Rough idea would be:
    600 sqft cartridge
    7.5 sqft sand
    112 sqft DE

    Again smaller is fine if you had low debris and did NOT use a suction cleaner.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Christian's Avatar
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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    There is a Sta-Rite System 3 Modular D.E. filter available in 72 sq foot size. Part number is S7MD72. Like any cartridge or grid the life is heavily influenced by how well you maintain it. I just read a note from a guy who has been using 2 Quad filters for 4 years and has never had to change the grids on either one and loves them. I really haven't received any negative feedback of any substance on them. Mostly just people who don't like the idea because it's something new and unfamiliar. If anyone has any solid complaints please let me know. I like to get as much info and as many opinions as I can.

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    Christian's Avatar
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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    Oh also I'm not saying Hayward doesn't make a good product but I do feel like their quality is not what it once was. And the main reason I dislike them is that their customer support is not on par with their major competitors. This is just my opinion.

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: DE Filter on its last leg. Need Advice!

    He needs fairly high flow to get through those 40k gallons in a rational timeframe. Not crazy high but 111 gpm to make an 8 hour turnover... Which would be possible if using a single 2.5 inch pipe on suction and return plumbing, Two 2" or three 1.5" would also work.
    (I think)


    Sent via Tapatalk...
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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