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Thread: Excessive Total Ions - TDS=1242

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    Excessive Total Ions - TDS=1242

    My pool has been "out of action" for the past two months, due to a skimmer leak & plugged MD. The skimmer suction line was completely re-plumbed last Friday, and I will have the pump-house plumbing straightened out in two more days. The water is clear but devoid of chlorine, & the bottom has a thin layer of dust that has settled in while the pump has been inoperative. The TA is rather low ( 70 ppm ), but the total dissolved solids are 3 times the value of my already "hard" tap water ( 1242 vs 403 ).
    Because the TA is low, I'm assuming the high TDS is due mainly from carbonates ( primarily CaCo3 ). I receive an annual water quality report from my water Co. ( San Gabriel Valley ), and the values seldom vary much year-to-year, as the source is well-water. The ions, other than Ca & Co3 are typically in the 40's for each ( Na, SO4, Mg, Cl & K ). I suspect that the high TDS is due to the fact that the pool has never been completely drained since I acquired it in 1971.
    After the re-plumb is complete, I intend to run the Polaris long enough to remove the silt, back-flush the filter & pull the grids out for a manual cleaning, then address the water balance problem. Do you water experts believe I should do a total drain, & start from scratch to fill & balance, or do a partial drain & proceed to fill & balance. I am not keen on the notion of baby-sitting the pool, testing daily while it fills. My 60-year-old house is also begging for attention, and I am "running out of years" to get everything done ( help! )
    15K gallon in-ground gunite/plaster pool(58 year-old Anthony Bros.), 15'x30', depth 3-1/2'->8' . Hayward Ecostar pump. Hayward DE-3600 filter with Variflow 710XR50 1-1/2" valve. Polaris 380 cleaner & "the pool cleaner (suction)". Main-drain suction disconnected. New skimmer suction plumbing 2" PVC. Single return line 1" copper. Cleaner line 1-1/2" copper, re-plumbed in pump-house (PVC) for either suction or pressure. Hayward 3/4HP PB4 booster pump. Leslie's 260 BTU Coppertherm heater. All new suction interconnect plumbing 2". Return plumbing, filter-to-booster, 1-1/2". Single return to pool 1". All equipment located 2-1/2ft. above pool bottom level ( neg. 5ft. from surface ).

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    Re: Excessive Total Ions - TDS=1242

    Well, we suggest on the forum that TDS is an irrelevant measurement. Additionally, there are many pools on this forum where TDS is in the several thousands and can still be operated just fine.

    Your Calcium Hardness (not total hardness) is a critical number and that would be far more helpful to know that.

    I would also suggest that you may have some issuesw with your Polaris (you don't say what kind you have) trying to remove silt. Far better to vacuum to wast, if possible, or simple manually vac to your filter and clean your filter often.

    It is impossible to suggest whether or not to do a total drain until you post complete test result to include...

    PH
    TA
    CH
    CYA
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive Total Ions - TDS=1242

    I'm not far from you, and I haven't got a clue what my TDS is. It's never been tested since I've owned the place, 3 years this month. My water is so clear you can toss a quarter in the deep end and call heads or tails standing on the deck.

    Remove whatever you can mechanically - vacuum - then run a full set of tests and after that it should be easy to balance. Your CH reading will be high. Depending on the CYA level, you may want to drain some; I wait until it starts raining (if ever, here) to do my major drain and refill to get rid of the Calcium.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: Excessive Total Ions - TDS=1242

    Thanks for the replies. I think I was concerned about the TDS mainly in consideration of the possible addition of a SWG, & an additional 3,000 ppm's of salts. My dog swims in the pool regularly, and laps up some water as he cruises around. I know that drinking sea-water is a definite no-no. My Taylor Trouble-shooter kit does not have the CH test reagents, but I will be getting a TF-100 after I pay off the skimmer leak bill.
    I agree that the Polaris 380 is not the best cleaner for picking up the silt ( the tail-whip stirs it up, so the amount in path of the suction jets is quite diluted ). I got rid of the "manual" pole-plate-hose rig decades ago, so I cannot do a hand-vacuum. I have looked into the pros/cons of the Baracuda cleaner ( the new plumbing goes both pressure/suction ), but I will have to get the necessary $$ first.
    From what I have read so far on this forum, the only ways to lower calcium hardness are partial draining & re-filling. or RO treatment of the water. Where I live, water is an expensive commodity, & my in-house RO unit ( used for drinking, coffee & home-brewing ), does a 95% rejection. Running at the maximum capacity of 25 GPD, the RO unit would send 500 gallons-per-day of water into my septic system. Until I do a CH test, to see what percentage of the pool anions are calcium, I won't be able to do a comparison of costs for RO vs tap-water partial drain/refill. FWIW, latest water Co. analysis has an average TDS=346 ppm, with +Ca=64 ppm.
    15K gallon in-ground gunite/plaster pool(58 year-old Anthony Bros.), 15'x30', depth 3-1/2'->8' . Hayward Ecostar pump. Hayward DE-3600 filter with Variflow 710XR50 1-1/2" valve. Polaris 380 cleaner & "the pool cleaner (suction)". Main-drain suction disconnected. New skimmer suction plumbing 2" PVC. Single return line 1" copper. Cleaner line 1-1/2" copper, re-plumbed in pump-house (PVC) for either suction or pressure. Hayward 3/4HP PB4 booster pump. Leslie's 260 BTU Coppertherm heater. All new suction interconnect plumbing 2". Return plumbing, filter-to-booster, 1-1/2". Single return to pool 1". All equipment located 2-1/2ft. above pool bottom level ( neg. 5ft. from surface ).

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive Total Ions - TDS=1242

    Seawater is something like 30,000 ppm of NaCl. Freshwater is anything under 1000 ppm. I'm sure the dog would be just fine with a little drink of 3000 ppm...

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    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive Total Ions - TDS=1242

    Here's some good reading on TDS: http://ppoa.org/pdfs/What%20is%20the%20 ... Solids.pdf

    Hope it helps.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Excessive Total Ions - TDS=1242

    There are companies with large RO setups specifically for doing pools.
    Although very limited in locations that actually have businesses that do this. You can not do the RO treatment with a personal household unit.

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
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    Re: Excessive Total Ions - TDS=1242

    Jason is right about the impractability of residential RO units for replacing pool water. My unit is rated at 60 psi, but the rest of my household plumbing is limited to 50 psi. I maintain a permanent pressure gauge on my residential lines, because hillside slippage is constantly breaking the local mains, & hasty repairs usually allows enough crud to get into the lines that my regulator has to be rebuilt and reset. From what I understand, commercial mobile RO units run at about 200 psi against high-pressure membranes. The resulting "waste" water from the treatment should therefore, be only 1/4 that of my residential unit.
    15K gallon in-ground gunite/plaster pool(58 year-old Anthony Bros.), 15'x30', depth 3-1/2'->8' . Hayward Ecostar pump. Hayward DE-3600 filter with Variflow 710XR50 1-1/2" valve. Polaris 380 cleaner & "the pool cleaner (suction)". Main-drain suction disconnected. New skimmer suction plumbing 2" PVC. Single return line 1" copper. Cleaner line 1-1/2" copper, re-plumbed in pump-house (PVC) for either suction or pressure. Hayward 3/4HP PB4 booster pump. Leslie's 260 BTU Coppertherm heater. All new suction interconnect plumbing 2". Return plumbing, filter-to-booster, 1-1/2". Single return to pool 1". All equipment located 2-1/2ft. above pool bottom level ( neg. 5ft. from surface ).

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