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Thread: Poolvergnuenen Pressure - Can a 3/4 HP Booster run it?

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Poolvergnuenen Pressure - Can a 3/4 HP Booster run it?

    I see lots of threads about problems with Pentair (maybe because they have more units installed?).

    I found only one about Poolvergnuenen products, and it was about the suction side cleaners. No real complaints, and overall positive. People who have problems are more likely to post than are happy campers.

    My pool does not have any kind of fitting on either return, and both are recessed - tapping a thread is not my idea of fun.

    I do have a nice female thread on the booster line.

    Is there any reason why I could not use the pressure cleaner on it?

    If you are reading this and have experience - good or bad, with this unit, I'd love to hear it.
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Poolvergnuenen Pressure - Can a 3/4 HP Booster run it?

    More than likely the volume vs pressure is not going to match. Call the company and verify. I know the Polaris 360 can't run on booster but the 380 can due to the intended pressure and flow requirements.

    Is the booster return plumbed with std diameter pipe? If so can you redo pad plumbing to make it a normal return? Ideally with a 3 way valve to control flow mix so you get just what the cleaner needs without having to plug any returns.


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    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Poolvergnuenen Pressure - Can a 3/4 HP Booster run it?

    As UWV said, it almost certainly won't work. They're designed to run with high flow/low pressure, while booster pumps provide high pressure/low flow.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Re: Poolvergnuenen Pressure - Can a 3/4 HP Booster run it?

    As the pad is 40' from the pool and the area between is paved, a re-plumb is another of those things I won't be doing.
    The booster (fired it up today for first time in 2 years) is noisy, and produces a stead stream of tiny bubbles.
    It is the only hole in the pool with a standard (1 1/2" female) pipe fitting.
    With the drain plumbed into the skimmer, a pressure wouldn't work, and I don't like the idea of having a debris-laden stream going directly into the pump.
    Do leaf canisters really work for twigs, pebbles, etc., or do they rip easily?
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Poolvergnuenen Pressure - Can a 3/4 HP Booster run it?

    Still confused. Is the pipe at the pad to the pool std 1.5" or smaller? Mine is std and uses a reducer to mate to the booster. If yours is similar removing the booster and reducer and tying the line into the filter output would switch it to a normal return. Adding a mixing valve between this and the other returns would allow fine tuning of the flow.

    If you have a small 1" pipe in the ground I'm not sure how much flow that would give if used with the main pump.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: Poolvergnuenen Pressure - Can a 3/4 HP Booster run it?

    From what I understand, they have great customer service and will most likely have your answers. Call them at (707) 566 0400.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Re: Poolvergnuenen Pressure - Can a 3/4 HP Booster run it?

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderWaterVanya
    Still confused. Is the pipe at the pad to the pool std 1.5" or smaller? Mine is std and uses a reducer to mate to the booster. If yours is similar removing the booster and reducer and tying the line into the filter output would switch it to a normal return. Adding a mixing valve between this and the other returns would allow fine tuning of the flow.

    If you have a small 1" pipe in the ground I'm not sure how much flow that would give if used with the main pump.
    Right now, I just replaced the filter, and cannot get the thing to prime. If and when that is resolved, I'll get back to looking at cleaners.

    Actually, I could get the effect by disconnecting the hose feeding the booster from the booster and hooking it up to the hose fitting on the booster line (which is in place - Wadya know - it IS possible to do something to a pool for less than $100!

    At the pad, there are 5 things sticking out of the slab:
    Gas line

    Bonding wire (clamped to the gas pipe, causing cancerous rust to the pipe and whatever conduit they used. Am trying to find a sure-fire rust buster to loosen it. The idea of clamping it to the pipe was good. Not insulating the wire at the clamp - not so good)

    2" suction

    2" pressure

    1" Booster


    The booster is plumbed via a 2" T just above ground on the pressure line. It uses a lot of reducers to get down to a hose fitting. The pressure side of the booster goes directly into the 1" PVC. There is an open/close valve on the booster line (also 1"). The fitting just below waterline is 1 1/2" female NPT.

    The returns from the filter are 1 or 1 1/4 (there are 2), both recessed - no pipe for 2" or so, and are canted to direct flow along the walls. A large fitting might have interference problems, as the returns are at the edge of the corner radii - putting a 12" ruler in one might work - a yardstick would run into the side of the pool long before reaching the pipe.

    Code:
    __________
                 \
                   \
                    |
                      \X
                     |   X
                            X
    This approximates the layout of the returns - the return pipe is pointed at the side of the pool, and is real close to the curve (X's represent return pipe placement and angle. Other gibberish is pool.
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Re: Poolvergnuenen Pressure - Can a 3/4 HP Booster run it?

    Quick Q:

    Is it safe/wise to run the booster for hours with the main pump off?

    Can it pull its own water through 40 feet of 2" pipe, the pump, and filter?
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Poolvergnuenen Pressure - Can a 3/4 HP Booster run it?

    It's not safe or wise. Booster pumps weren't designed for that. Page 2 of the booster pump manual states it pretty clearly.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Poolvergnuenen Pressure - Can a 3/4 HP Booster run it?

    What I meant about the ruler was this:
    Code:
    0
    |---
    ^   |
    __  |
      | |
     R> |
    A person stands holding the ruler (between thumb and forefinger lightly so it can swing freely) from the top of the pool laying the end of the ruler into the stream of water. The current created should deflect the ruler a certain angle depending on the flow. R> is the return, the person is above standing on the ledge and holding a long stick/ruler.

    As for your booster plumbing - it sounds as though your in ground plumbing is large enough that you could convert that to normal return or suction and change the fitting to allow use with a pressure side or suction side cleaner - it would require redoing the pad side of things however. The booster could be removed or left where it is.

    As for the bonding - I'm confused by what you are saying. Bonding wire is copper - and as such should not need insulation to protect it. If it was insulated at the point of contact how would it bond? I'm not following something.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Re: Poolvergnuenen Pressure - Can a 3/4 HP Booster run it?

    The problem with clamping two dissimilar metals (steel and copper in this case is electrolytic rot. The bonding wire has enough electrical potential (voltage) to induce said rot. This is why there are special fittings for joining copper pipe to steel pipe - one end is steel, the other is copper - and there is an electrical insulation between the two.

    Yes, I could simply disconnect the booster's output from the 1" return and its input from the pump. I now have a 1" hose tapped to the 2" return, and a 1" return pipe looking for a hose. Got it.
    What isn't so clear is whether or not a 1" return line could carry enough volume of water to operate a cleaner - and the way this is plumbed, the hose could develop suction.

    Here's a shot of the booster plumbing - it also shows the corrosion of the pipe - why is only the pipe from the ground rotted? Teflon tape on the threads is my guess.



    Right now, I am back to square one - a lonely post in Pumping Station about why I keep losing head after installing a replacement filter.
    Not stated was the Q re. why I can't fully screw on the locking ring of the (cheap version) Clean and Clear 200.
    The ebay seller of the ring just asked "how it went?" (looking for feedback). I told him. We'll see where that goes.

    Thanks again Vanya

    Bama Rambler - thanks for the timely response. The booster is the one item for which I do not have a manual - when this was installed, everything simply had to be black - the equipment, the sch 40 PVC, and the data plate on the booster - I can make out the 3/4 hp, and nothing else.
    No, trying to look at pics of every booster made since 1985 to find a match is another "not in this lifetime"
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Poolvergnuenen Pressure - Can a 3/4 HP Booster run it?

    Those pictures clear up a lot for me. I misread your comments and thought you were saying there was a larger pipe in the ground for the outflow from the booster. Now that we have established that is not the case you are correct you can't replumb that and expect a high volume non-booster powered pressure side cleaner to work on the end of that line.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Re: Poolvergnuenen Pressure - Can a 3/4 HP Booster run it?

    This booster install is just another example of why "custom" <> "good".

    In addition to using a 2" T and all but plugging the hole you want as a water source, the 1" line ends with a 1 1/2" wall fitting. That might be where you got the idea it was a 1 1/2" line
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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