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Thread: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

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    copotay's Avatar
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    I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    Ok, towards the end of summer we had a problem with reoccurring algea bloom, not bad but it would keep hitting us about every two weeks. Finding patches on the bottom, water not sparkly, we could not figure it out. Followed overnight tests, shocking to match or just above, brushing, vacuuming to waste, scrubbing light and ladder, over under and in the middle. Well brought it back to shock again, cloudy water, no overnight loss for two nights. I had enough. Then I remembered the weep holes in the ladder that I filled with pool water to submerge it when I built the pool. Tiny holes on each step, it's a Confer heavy duty. Ahh, maybe since I cannot see anyway that that water could circulate through those steps. Pulled it out and as the water drained lime green koolaid came out of each steps weep hole especially the bottom one. So instead of a tiny hole I drilled them 1/2 size to allow more water to get into the steps when I put it back in. I also flushed out each step which had green water coming out the holes. I took my meat syringe, Clorox, and pumped it into each hole, (note to self, syringe Clorox in the holes at least once a month). Now I believe this was the culprit that kept me from clearing the algae, but time will tell. I do keep my numbers inline making sure my FC is equal to the CYA chart and regulated it faithfully following the experts here. Hopefully this may shed some light to other people with these submersible ladders or steps, and I live in south Louisiana, where our humidity and summer rains gives us pool owners nightmares with algae.
    21 X 52 Sharkline Venture, 10,400 Gallons,
    Hayward Pro Series 18 Sand Filter, BBB Method, Leslies DPD Complete Chlorine Kit, Taylor K-1515-A - Drop Test, FAS-DPD Chlorine

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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    Ladders are usually where algae makes its last stand. Willing to bet that's what was causing the problem of slow-to-clear algae. Just a few nooks & crannies that can curtail water circulation give algae additional protection. Your solution of using a meat syringe to apply a solution of Clorox into the ladder holes sounds like it will work. Just make sure that syringe does not find its way back into the kitchen.
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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    Lol, it will be a pool tool now. I ended up Iphone videoing the last of the lime green pool water coming out of the small holes onto the concrete, it was way worse at first before the video, but it will show the picture. I will try to get it posted somehow. I would have thought that, with the continuing problem, there would have been some type of mass dark green sludge colony that would have came out of the tiny holes but it wasn't it was just very lime green colored water, and I know there are numerous types of algae with different colors. One thing I did notice though is that one month ago I changed my pump from the big Intex sand filter to the Hayward 1HP I have listed and my algae fight got worse. Boy that new pump moves that small pool water in a circular motion at quite a good speed giving a good current. Well I think what happended is that the ladder, that is across the pool from the eyeball, sitting directly in the current going around the pool, shook up the quietly sitting algae in the ladder causing it to stir into the water as it seeped out of the weep holes at a greater rate than that old Intex pump which could hardly get a current going around the pool. As the water hit the side of the ladder, and the 4 weep holes of the steps, it entered sloshing around the sitting algae forcing it out of the 4 weep holes on the other side of the ladder hence mixing into the pool water. Well time will tell but now I again have to shock because when I pulled it out some of the green slime came out of the ladder into the pool water. So hopefully this got it and now I will know from now on if that was it. BTW everytime I was dealing with it I was thinking of the old scifi movie "The Green Slime" which some of u may remember, lol

    here is the short vid

    http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e165/ ... nslime.mp4
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    21 X 52 Sharkline Venture, 10,400 Gallons,
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    copotay's Avatar
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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    Ok I think I got it, water is now sparkling clear. Cleaned the heck out of the ladder and pumped clorox into the hole before putting it back. Now my water had a greenish tint to it while shocking at 16 for two days and still had pockets of green on the bottom. My numbers were as follows before shock:

    FC - 6.5
    TC - 6.5
    CC - 0
    CYA - 30
    PH - 7.8
    TA - 130

    So following the chart I shocked at 16 but I will still getting green pockets on the bottom and green residue on the filter sock. The water was starting to clear some but after two days and no overnight loss it still was not working. I found no other areas in the pool that could be hiding the stuff. I had also backwashed in between. So I vacuumed to waste the green pockets refilling and testing CYA again now down to about 25. So I decided to up my Clorox and went to 24 ppm yesterday. Pool is clear as a bell and sparkling I will again try the OCLT tonight and see if it loses, but it looks like I needed to go up on the Clorox above chart recommendations. One question I have is for my vinyl liner is 24 ppm safe for it? I would not know what else to do to kill the green slime but going higher looks like it fixed it.
    21 X 52 Sharkline Venture, 10,400 Gallons,
    Hayward Pro Series 18 Sand Filter, BBB Method, Leslies DPD Complete Chlorine Kit, Taylor K-1515-A - Drop Test, FAS-DPD Chlorine

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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    24 ppm FC with 25 ppm CYA is roughly equivalent to 4.4 ppm FC with no CYA so is rather high. While it won't immediately damage the liner, it will be harsh on it and not something to do for any extended period of time. Basically, every day at that level is equivalent to the wear from 73 days of a normal chlorine level (an FC that is 7.5% of the CYA level). The active chlorine level rises up in a non-linear way when the FC gets closer to the CYA level so we normally recommend not to go above the yellow/mustard algae shock level where the FC is around 60% of the CYA level which is equivalent to around 1.4 ppm FC with no CYA. However, for your situation the regular shock level where the FC is around 40% of the CYA level and is equivalent to around 0.6 ppm FC with no CYA should be sufficient. You just need patience and perhaps better circulation through brushing.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    Tks for the reply chemgeek I just could not get it to clear up at 16 after repeated brushing and cleaning everything. I was worried about going that high that's why I asked. It's like we fought this all summer with a Cya of about 50 it was doing good not losing much in our hot summer days but always had a problem with algae starting on the floor every couple of days even though I was above minimum. I would shock at the recommended levels it would go away then come back two weeks later that's when I think the ladder would poison the pool again. I am about to put more Cya in it this afternoon because I just measured it and it dropped from 24 at 8:30 am to 11.5 at 5:30 pm, not that hot in the 80s but the sun hit it all day no clouds. The water is crystal clear with no green pockets in the pool and the water no longer has a green tint to it. Thank you very much chemgeek I know from reading the forum you know your stuff and appreciate your expertise. If I am doing something wrong please let me know.

    Edit forgot to ask, chemgeek what you are saying is that running at regular shock level, meeting the cya ppm, it could take several days at shock level brushing etc to get it cleared up vs heavy chlorine dosing to get it cleared up like in a day, but the lower shock level is not as harmful to the liner over several days as it would be at high levels in one day.
    21 X 52 Sharkline Venture, 10,400 Gallons,
    Hayward Pro Series 18 Sand Filter, BBB Method, Leslies DPD Complete Chlorine Kit, Taylor K-1515-A - Drop Test, FAS-DPD Chlorine

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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by copotay
    Edit forgot to ask, chemgeek what you are saying is that running at regular shock level, meeting the cya ppm, it could take several days at shock level brushing etc to get it cleared up vs heavy chlorine dosing to get it cleared up like in a day, but the lower shock level is not as harmful to the liner over several days as it would be at high levels in one day.
    Basically yes, though if you maintain a regular shock level for about one week, then it's about the same as one day at the shock level you were doing. Your situation sounds very much like poor bottom circulation which you are trying to make up for by a higher chlorine level -- being higher everywhere will be higher in areas of poor circulation as well, though obviously at a lower level than where the circulation is better.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by copotay
    I am about to put more Cya in it this afternoon because I just measured it and it dropped from 24 at 8:30 am to 11.5 at 5:30 pm, not that hot in the 80s but the sun hit it all day no clouds.
    Clarification needed: are you saying your free chlorine dropped rapidly so you need more CYA to keep fc levels higher? Or are you saying the CYA levels dropped half in one day?



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    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    Underwatervanya: I was adding more cya to bring up the cya back to where it use to be because when I vacuumed to waste several times I lost Cya, I was just saying how much the chlorine had dropped due to low cya with full sun.

    Chemgeek: Tks for the reply, on the poor bottom circulation, I have only one eyeball that I have tried in different positions, following other posts I have it positioned about 45 degrees to the right and 45 degrees down away from the skimmer right now with very little surface water ripple. Should I position it further down because it may not be moving the water at the lower level? My debri currently all forms together in the middle on the bottom.
    21 X 52 Sharkline Venture, 10,400 Gallons,
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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    With only one eyeball return, about all you can do is angle it diagonally so that it creates a swirling motion, but there will still probably be some areas of poor circulation. There are some kinds of returns you can buy that swirl around in direction (e.g. The Circulator) so you might consider using one of those, though it might not be enough. There are many above-ground circular pools that have only one return and while many do have poor bottom circulation, they don't seem to get quite as much algae as yours seems to have.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    It might not be too hard to add a second return however...
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    I angled the eye further down pratically at the floor about 6 or 7 feet out and to the right making all the water swirl in a circular motion around the pool. The eyeball did not like being forced at that much of an angle but it's going to have to live with it if this works. Before I think I had it too far up, it was not shooting out of the water but u could see surface ripples from it. I have it so far pointed down now there is no water waves/ripples just rolling water all around the pool. I think with the higher flow pump I had the water going around the pool so fast it was not mixing good at lower levels now I have it shooting into the lower water if that makes sense, what do y'all think. Thought of an extra return but have to get the bravery up to cut a new hole in my brand new pool.

    I had no loss overnight and this afternoon I am at 12.5 a lot of sun all day. I will be lowering to about 8 I think not to let it drop below 3 for 40 cya, looks like it lost 5 throughout the day. Nothing on the floor and the water is crystal. Chemgeek I know u don't approve of algaecides or if u do it's polyquat 60, I had used bio guard backup in the past and still have some. I might go ahead a give it a dose when I am back to normal FC levels, what is your opinion with my given situation.
    21 X 52 Sharkline Venture, 10,400 Gallons,
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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    BioGuard Backup is a linear quat so it's main issue is that it can foam. It also breaks down from chlorine faster than Polyquat. It is a reasonably effective algaecide. As for your options, if you can't get circulation in better shape then using a supplemental algaecide or a phosphate remover or a higher chlorine FC target are all approaches. Since you've already got some product you can certainly try it. We don't say not ever to use something, but rather just want you to make sure you understand the alternatives and the side effects.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    I appreciate your information and will see how the redirected flow effects the circulation and will likely add some of the algaecide since I have it already. Tks
    21 X 52 Sharkline Venture, 10,400 Gallons,
    Hayward Pro Series 18 Sand Filter, BBB Method, Leslies DPD Complete Chlorine Kit, Taylor K-1515-A - Drop Test, FAS-DPD Chlorine

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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    Upon further inspection of the eyeball, and the way I have to twist it downards to push water into the lower levels, some of the return water is slightly blocked by the sleeve that screws onto the connection to keep the ball in the housing. This is giving higher water pressure as the hole is becoming partially blocked by the sleeve although all the water is exiting. Trying to get a 45 degree angle out of it is barely impossible with the way its made so I may replace the eyeball and its screw in fitting with a pvc 1 1/2 male nipple to 1 inch reducer then to a true 45 degree pvc elbow where there will be no obstruction to the flow at all. Even if the 45 is too extreme I could shave some of the elbow until I get a slighter angle if I am shooting to low into the floor. Then I can angle it directly at the lower water and floor and to the right a bit to see if that helps with the lower circulation. At least if it doesnt work all I have to do is unscrew it and screw the eyeball back in. I tried looking for something other than the recessed eyeball that would have some type of protrusion from the fitting giving better angle choices without the screw on sleeve blocking the water, but could not find it. I found that rubber 90 but nothing else.

    [attachment=0:2ebvhi9x]90 fitting.jpg[/attachment:2ebvhi9x]

    Chemgeek I saw that Circulator return and as you said I dont know if it would alleviate the problem and its $50.00 with a spring inside, I dont know after awhile or even right now how much water flow it would restrict, thinking it could build up deposits inside and begin not working correctly. I guess I am concerned over the head pressure in the 1 hp pump with only one return.

    Edit: right after I posted I found this thing that draws water into it and pushes it out while the filtered water comes out of it, dont know if it would work.

    http://www.poolandspa.com/catalog/produ ... onjet2.cfm
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    21 X 52 Sharkline Venture, 10,400 Gallons,
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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    I've seen Infusion as well, but couldn't remember it so I'm glad you found it. That would be another alternative. They mostly promote it for better heating by mixing top/bottom water better, but the same principle would apply towards mixing for chlorine. The main downside with a return pointing downwards is that you may not get good skimming action. Hopefully if the direction is diagonal so that you get a swirling effect, that this may still be present at the surface allowing leaves to migrate to the skimmer.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    Yes thats what I was thinking too, I think I will order one found it on ebay for $20 with shipping, so its not to bad if it does not work well.
    21 X 52 Sharkline Venture, 10,400 Gallons,
    Hayward Pro Series 18 Sand Filter, BBB Method, Leslies DPD Complete Chlorine Kit, Taylor K-1515-A - Drop Test, FAS-DPD Chlorine

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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    Where did you find the flexible 90?
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    Its made by waterway the maker of my eyeball and skimmer, just do a search for the model number they sell them at a few pool places

    here is the waterway plastics pdf:

    http://www.waterwayplastics.com/catalog ... ttings.pdf

    I found this one too by Hayward that might work looks like its adjustable more than what i have now:
    [attachment=0:n54c3twn]hayward eyeball.jpg[/attachment:n54c3twn]

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hayward-Pool-Hy ... 5aea309480
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    21 X 52 Sharkline Venture, 10,400 Gallons,
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    Re: I think I found the algea culprit, ladder

    Ok while waiting for the other returns I went ahead and tried my idea, works real good pushing alot of water at the angle I wanted, and I know it sticks out from the side but I would rather have it sticking out a bit from the side then have algae growing in the deep water.

    [attachment=0:3u5jvko0]photo.JPG[/attachment:3u5jvko0]

    [attachment=1:3u5jvko0]photo in water.JPG[/attachment:3u5jvko0]
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    21 X 52 Sharkline Venture, 10,400 Gallons,
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