Final stages of pool planning in Socal!!

[Killer95Stang]

After reading through this board at night for the last couple months, I think I finally nailed exactly what we want for backyard oasis!! We currently have quotations with 5 different pool companies that are local to my Socal neighborhood. Now its just sorting through all the differences in our quotations and having them come back with one final offer (once they've made the adjustments). As far as time frame goes, we will sign a contract in early December and hopefully have them start by the first of the year.

Specifications:
-Socal mild climate w/ pool being open all year
- Upper yard is 60' x 32'
- Pool will be 32' x 19' with a depth of 3.5' -8' of water line.
- 7' diameter spa with spillover into pool
- Rock water feature
- Quartz medium finish with option of pebble
- Pentair Intelliflow VS pump
- Intellichlor SWG
- Intelllibrite colored LED's in pool / spa with color change controller.
- Baja step
- Either Pentair Clean & Clear 520 Filter or Pentair DE filter (any suggestions)
- Flagstone coping and 6" tile
- 750 sqft of stamped / colored concrete
- Dedicated cleaner inlet w/ Pentair sand shark

Pictures... My wife is a designer by trade, so she came up with a complete drawing which was then entered into Pool Studio by one of the pool contractors.. we will most likely go with this design.

What do you think?

 

[Flippy]

Looks really nice. Personally I would skip the decking all the way around the pool and have more decking by your covered area. When you have guests over I wouldn't want them in the yard tracking grass and mud back into the pool. Just my 2 cents.

 

[jblizzle]

Looks nice.

Did you make any consideration for the size and number of plumbing runs from the pool to the equipment pad and back?
Best is to have the skimmers and floor drain plumbed separately to the pad.

Any estimate of the volume? So we can offer filter sizing advice.

 

[Killer95Stang]

Looks really nice. Personally I would skip the decking all the way around the pool and have more decking by your covered area. When you have guests over I wouldn't want them in the yard tracking grass and mud back into the pool. Just my 2 cents.

That makes a lot of sense... we will most likely add some concrete and just get rid of the grass all together...

 

[jblizzle]

If the pool was ~20k gallons (I think it may actually be a little less), our general filter recommendations are:
300 sqft cartridge
3.7 sqft sand
56 sqft DE

The 520 you listed is likely quite over-sized. One member has the equivalent to a 420 sqft (scaled to your pool size) and the pressure never goes up, they only clean it once a year. You could probably save a few $100 be not going quite so large and going with the 320 sqft.

 

[Killer95Stang]

If the pool was ~20k gallons (I think it may actually be a little less), our general filter recommendations are:
300 sqft cartridge
3.7 sqft sand
56 sqft DE

The 520 you listed is likely quite over-sized. One member has the equivalent to a 420 sqft (scaled to your pool size) and the pressure never goes up, they only clean it once a year. You could probably save a few $100 be not going quite so large and going with the 320 sqft.

I'm guessing (based on other pools I've seen) the pool is about 17K gallons. So far two of the builders sized a 420 sq ft filter, while one has sized a 520. Only one of the five builders even mentioned that he would be quoting the installation based on a DE type filter. When I asked him about it, he stated that a lot of builders shy away from the DE because of the p-trap requirement for the drainage of the backwash.

As far as returns and pipe size. Not one has mentioned anything about quantity and pipe size. I know I should ask for 2" pipe, but I really don't have much knowledge about how many pipes, skimmers and placement.

Any tips would be helpful and would allow me to bring it up when I go to the bargaining table.

 

[jblizzle]

DE may require more equipment where you are ... so I could see that. I think the 420 is a bit large still, but the 520 just seems silly to me.

Just tell them you want the skimmers and floor drain run to the pad separately, this will allow you better control of where the water is pulled from and will reduce your suction side head loss allowing a higher flow rate at lower RPMs.

May also want to inquire about an equalization line on the skimmer since your floor will not be plumbed to the skimmer. This prevents the pump from pulling air if the water level dropped below the skimmer entrance.

 

[Killer95Stang]

DE may require more equipment where you are ... so I could see that. I think the 420 is a bit large still, but the 520 just seems silly to me.

Just tell them you want the skimmers and floor drain run to the pad separately, this will allow you better control of where the water is pulled from and will reduce your suction side head loss allowing a higher flow rate at lower RPMs.

May also want to inquire about an equalization line on the skimmer since your floor will not be plumbed to the skimmer. This prevents the pump from pulling air if the water level dropped below the skimmer entrance.

Those are good tips... I'll bring that up to the contractors before I sign...

Also... What are your thoughts about automation? Is it needed in my situation? I know that Pentair sells their Easytouch units with the included, so it saves the cost of buying the transformer and sub panel for that matter.

 

[Kerlee]

Beautiful design, have you considered an infinity edge along the edge that is closest to the house. I saw a house in Aruba with an elevated backyard that did that and it was amazing to be able to enjoy the waterscape feature all the time. Most infinity edge pools are built with the slope away from the house. Just a thought

 

[bpricedo]

Looks really nice. Personally I would skip the decking all the way around the pool and have more decking by your covered area. When you have guests over I wouldn't want them in the yard tracking grass and mud back into the pool. Just my 2 cents.

I agree about more decking but I would keep what you currently have shown.

I would consider adding decking in the area in your drawing that looks like an elevated grass area with the two chaise lounges pictured. Other than that, I have seen quite a few pools on here from southern CA that use artificial grass around the pool, that would be a possibility as well but I think decking would be preferred.

 

[bigdav160]

Also... What are your thoughts about automation? Is it needed in my situation? I know that Pentair sells their Easytouch units with the included, so it saves the cost of buying the transformer and sub panel for that matter.

Do you mind walking over to the equipment pad to swap the valves to spa made or turn on the lights?

Or would you rather do that from the lanai?

Are you constrained by budget?

There's more to automation than the panel. I'm a DIY type so I'm not sure how much it adds to the cost of building the pool. Perhaps a couple G's?

Oh yea, I would insist on decking all the way around the pool. How else do you properly maintain it? My MIL has a pool that is only decked 2/3 around. Her pool cleaner person has fallen in the pool several times because of the lacking of proper decking.

 

[Killer95Stang]

Beautiful design, have you considered an infinity edge along the edge that is closest to the house. I saw a house in Aruba with an elevated backyard that did that and it was amazing to be able to enjoy the waterscape feature all the time. Most infinity edge pools are built with the slope away from the house. Just a thought

My wife and everyone that sees our backyard arrangement says that we should do an infinity edge on the pool. Unfortunately at $1100-$1800 a foot, the price is the restricting factor... lol..

 

[Killer95Stang]

Also... What are your thoughts about automation? Is it needed in my situation? I know that Pentair sells their Easytouch units with the included, so it saves the cost of buying the transformer and sub panel for that matter.

Do you mind walking over to the equipment pad to swap the valves to spa made or turn on the lights?
Wouldn't be an issue for me, but might be a problem for my wife to remember the sequence of valves and switches to hit

Or would you rather do that from the lanai?

Are you constrained by budget?
Probably the biggest factor.... we are paying cash with no financing of anything, so we have to kinda stay around our projected budget

There's more to automation than the panel. I'm a DIY type so I'm not sure how much it adds to the cost of building the pool. Perhaps a couple G's?
My background is Mech. Engineering with some experience in automation through the use of PLC's. I can figure out how to program, but on a project this big, I would rather just get it as part of the package. I'm just getting over some other remodel projects and could use the rest... lol

Oh yea, I would insist on decking all the way around the pool. How else do you properly maintain it? My MIL has a pool that is only decked 2/3 around. Her pool cleaner person has fallen in the pool several times because of the lacking of proper decking.
We will definitely have concrete all around the pool and probably add a little more for a fire pit and lounge chairs next to the pavilion

 

[CraigMW]

You can always add the automation later. Given budget restraints, it might make some sense to install a basic system now and then upgrade down the road. Just make sure that you have an adequately sized 2-speed or variable speed pump. I do recommend the latter, and you will get a rebate from your power company ($200 from SoCal Edison) if you go with a variable speed. Given the high cost of electricity, it really does make sense to install a variable speed pump. I'm not sure which equipment you plan to install, but it might make the most sense to go with one vendor for all the major equipment. This will make automation more likely to be successful down the road. The advantage of doing everything in one shot is that when you bundle a pump, filter and other major piece of equipment (e.g. heater, pump, etc), some vendors like Pentair will extend their warranty on the equipment.

In our case, I decided to install a Pentair Intelliflo VS pump and later added an Easytouch automation system with bundled SWCG. I did this myself without much trouble. With an added interface for the Easytouch, I can now control my pool equipment from anywhere via the web (e.g. from my Android). But, this can be a "down the road" option.

 

[Ponytrekker]

Hello, yes that is a nice design. Also being from SoCal, our builder recommended we stay away from the raised spa for this reason......having your spa at the same level as your pool lets you hang over the edge, to cool off your arms, splash your face or more importantly, roll over the edge into the pool (or vise verse) easily without having to step out, or in your case, climb over the spa wall. He was absolutely right.

I was also able to design my own tile inlay on the top of the spa wall, and it remains a visual focalpoint that you see from all
sides of the yard.

Good luck with your build!

Ponytrekker

 

[Killer95Stang]

Hello, yes that is a nice design. Also being from SoCal, our builder recommended we stay away from the raised spa for this reason......having your spa at the same level as your pool lets you hang over the edge, to cool off your arms, splash your face or more importantly, roll over the edge into the pool (or vise verse) easily without having to step out, or in your case, climb over the spa wall. He was absolutely right.

I was also able to design my own tile inlay on the top of the spa wall, and it remains a visual focalpoint that you see from all
sides of the yard.

Good luck with your build!

Ponytrekker

I see where your builder is coming from and most of the designs we initially had were drawn with a level spa. My wife who will ultimately make the final decision, likes the fact that a the raised spa stands out as a "water feature" in itself. Not to mention, we plan on getting the most use of this spa in the winter, when its too cold to swim. Personally, I choose to fight more technical battles over things like full automation, color changing LED's, LED TV w/ cable at the Pavilion and wireless remote connectivity of the pool features (geek in me).

With that said... I envision most Spa use scenarios will start like this. After 2 hours of sitting in LA traffic on the verge of a total melt down, just trying to make it to my nice quiet suburb, a light bulb goes on. I figure I have about 45 minutes of travel left, so I reach for my "Android" based phone and turn on the Autelis Automation app. I crank the spa temp 104 degrees and schedule the spa jets and LED lights to turn on about the time I'm expected home. I then send out a text message to my wife who is probably in the same boat as me driving down the 605 fwy. I ask her if we have any more of the margarita mix and then engage in an over the phone game of "paper rock scissors". Knats!!! I lose again, I'm now responsible for making the margaritas before we rendezvous at the spa!!