Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questions?

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tecumseh, MI
    Posts
    53

    Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questions?

    Never owned a pool before...Bought the house in July, enjoyed the pool for 2 months, and now the season is over (Michigan).

    All the closing chemicals are in, cover is on, water lowered, so pretty much closed. BUT, here is where I need help. As you see in the pics below, it seems ALL of my water (pool, roof/gutters, etc) drain into my main sewer line. The pool has 2 floor drains which I have NOT used (don't even know how they work), and 2 valves on the plumbing. The top valve shuts off the water to the pump/filter. I assumed that the other valve, when open, would have allowed the water to drain into the ground - but it does NOT!!!

    So...

    1. If that lower valve doesn't allow the water to drain into the ground (and I assure you, it doesn't), then what the heck is it for?????? And how does it work?

    2. Living in SE Michigan, do I need to do anything with that plumbing? Blow air into the lines? RV antifreeze? How much? How do I know what's enough? Which valves open and which closed? (oh please don't tell me I need to open the cover back up! I worked so hard getting it tucked on nice and neat).

    3. This branch that splits to either the filter/pump or into the ground...is this branch what you call a "GIZMO"???

    4. Also and kind of seperate from my plumbing questions - my pump & filter tank/container/housing - can I leave them outside in the storage shed all winter, or do I need to move them inside to the basement?

    Thanks for any help you guys can provide!





    ~12,500 sqft above ground, 95 sq ft Sta-Rite Posi-Clear Cartridge filter, installed by previous owner in 2010?, Proud TF100 user!

  2. Back To Top    #2
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Mint Hill, NC
    Posts
    2,589

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiesman84
    BUT, here is where I need help. As you see in the pics below, it seems ALL of my water (pool, roof/gutters, etc) drain into my main sewer line. The pool has 2 floor drains which I have NOT used (don't even know how they work), and 2 valves on the plumbing. The top valve shuts off the water to the pump/filter. I assumed that the other valve, when open, would have allowed the water to drain into the ground - but it does NOT!!!

    So...

    1. If that lower valve doesn't allow the water to drain into the ground (and I assure you, it doesn't), then what the heck is it for?????? And how does it work?
    The lower valve likely (99.999%) is for the bottom drains. Turn the handle in line with the pipe and water/air would be able to flow thru.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiesman84
    2. Living in SE Michigan, do I need to do anything with that plumbing? Blow air into the lines? RV antifreeze? How much? How do I know what's enough? Which valves open and which closed? (oh please don't tell me I need to open the cover back up! I worked so hard getting it tucked on nice and neat).
    Yes you need to blow those lines and add rv antifreeze. Since you already lowered levels you need to get a shop vac and reverse it and blow into the pipes with the main drain valve open to force air out. Then you close that valve which traps the air in there. Best to look on YouTube for vids and come back with questions. More than likely you need to pull the cover back enough to plug your return(s). Read the article in pool school on closing/winterizing an AGP for extra info.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiesman84
    3. This branch that splits to either the filter/pump or into the ground...is this branch what you call a "GIZMO"???
    No. Gizmo is a device that can be used in skimmer to help winterize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiesman84
    4. Also and kind of seperate from my plumbing questions - my pump & filter tank/container/housing - can I leave them outside in the storage shed all winter, or do I need to move them inside to the basement?
    .
    No clue. I'm too far south and too green to know.





    - Sent using Tapatalk
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  3. Back To Top    #3
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Mint Hill, NC
    Posts
    2,589

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    Also I don't see any evidence your pool is hooked to sewer.

    Give us a pic of the filter and any valve on it.


    - Sent using Tapatalk
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tecumseh, MI
    Posts
    53

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderWaterVanya
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiesman84
    BUT, here is where I need help. As you see in the pics below, it seems ALL of my water (pool, roof/gutters, etc) drain into my main sewer line. The pool has 2 floor drains which I have NOT used (don't even know how they work), and 2 valves on the plumbing. The top valve shuts off the water to the pump/filter. I assumed that the other valve, when open, would have allowed the water to drain into the ground - but it does NOT!!!

    So...

    1. If that lower valve doesn't allow the water to drain into the ground (and I assure you, it doesn't), then what the heck is it for?????? And how does it work?
    The lower valve likely (99.999%) is for the bottom drains. Turn the handle in line with the pipe and water/air would be able to flow thru.

    OK, yeah I'm certain it does allow air through based on some flow I've gotten to the pump/filter...so that has to be open for the floor drains to work, right? So how do those floor drains open? Do they twist to open? b/c I didn't notice them opening automatically when I played with that valve. Do I have to do something with the floor drains to actually open them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiesman84
    2. Living in SE Michigan, do I need to do anything with that plumbing? Blow air into the lines? RV antifreeze? How much? How do I know what's enough? Which valves open and which closed? (oh please don't tell me I need to open the cover back up! I worked so hard getting it tucked on nice and neat).
    Yes you need to blow those lines and add rv antifreeze. Since you already lowered levels you need to get a shop vac and reverse it and blow into the pipes with the main drain valve open to force air out. Then you close that valve which traps the air in there. Best to look on YouTube for vids and come back with questions. More than likely you need to pull the cover back enough to plug your return(s). Read the article in pool school on closing/winterizing an AGP for extra info.

    I drained the water below my return already. And I would do that from the outside anyway (and it's below the pool cover) so I'm not sure how uncovering to plug returns would be necessary, unless I'm not understanding something - added additional picture below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiesman84
    3. This branch that splits to either the filter/pump or into the ground...is this branch what you call a "GIZMO"???
    No. Gizmo is a device that can be used in skimmer to help winterize.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiesman84
    4. Also and kind of seperate from my plumbing questions - my pump & filter tank/container/housing - can I leave them outside in the storage shed all winter, or do I need to move them inside to the basement?
    .
    No clue. I'm too far south and too green to know.





    - Sent using Tapatalk
    ~12,500 sqft above ground, 95 sq ft Sta-Rite Posi-Clear Cartridge filter, installed by previous owner in 2010?, Proud TF100 user!

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tecumseh, MI
    Posts
    53

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderWaterVanya
    Also I don't see any evidence your pool is hooked to sewer.

    Give us a pic of the filter and any valve on it.


    - Sent using Tapatalk
    There is a pic of the filter area now in the previous reply...the filter does not have any drain into the ground. But since my gutters drain into the ground I first assumed (incorrectly) that the PVC pipe into the ground was a drain. OK, I get it that it is only a vent pipe, but that still leaves the floor drains...shouldn't I assume they drain out the bottom of the pool into the same lines that my gutters/eaves troughs drain into?
    ~12,500 sqft above ground, 95 sq ft Sta-Rite Posi-Clear Cartridge filter, installed by previous owner in 2010?, Proud TF100 user!

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    26,737

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    The floor drain is really not a drain as you are thinking. They pull the water out of the pool to the pool filter. The water from the floor drains go where the water from the skimmer goes.

    Floor drain-it is open at all times. It does not close/open. There is water in the lines at all times. When you turn the handle of the bottom valve it allows the water to flow from the bottom pool drain to the filter. If you close the bottom valve as it is now the water will just sit in the pipes SO may be a danger of freezing/busting!

    Your gutters-I wonder if they go to a french drain or some such instead of the septic. I have never heard of gutters going to septic (does not mean it does not happen but....). That would be a LOT of water and the septic field would not last long.

    I hope this helps a little bit.

    Keep asking questions until you really understand what needs to be done. Read Pool school until you have it down!

    GOOD LUCK!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Swampwoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    3,539

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    Hi there. Mine's in ground, it's my first year, and the pool company is closing it, so I'm not much help in that regard. My equipment is also in a heated pool house, but if it wasn't, it would be fine outdoors so long as you had removed the drain plugs and ensured all water was removed so that a freeze didn't cause expansion damage. At least, that's true with the big, permanent filters hard plumbed into the system. Perhaps aboveground one's are more portable.

    But I wanted to share that my eaves are the same way and in my case they connect to a series of French drains designed to manage storm water and direct it away from the foundation(s).

    I suspect that's what's going on on your property too. Hope that helps.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
    If TFP has helped you, please click to SUPPORT TFP!
    Helpful Links:
    GET A TEST KIT Chlorine/CYA Chart How to SLAM About Metals & Stains

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Swampwoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    3,539

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    Ps in case you read other references that confuse you -- in some in ground configurations in our neck of the woods, pool builders install a sump underneath the pool floor to prevent floating during high water times. In this configuration, mine is plumbed to connect to my multiport filter, whereby I can reverse the flow, pumping storm water either into the pool or out the filter line to waste. In this case, I have two main drain valves...one that controls the flow of the water to the filter, and a second valve that opens the line to the sump area.

    I've never heard of a sump used in an above ground installation, but I wanted you to know that if you skim/read threads where you see people talking about two main drain valves, that might be what they're referring to.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
    If TFP has helped you, please click to SUPPORT TFP!
    Helpful Links:
    GET A TEST KIT Chlorine/CYA Chart How to SLAM About Metals & Stains

  9. Back To Top    #9
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Mint Hill, NC
    Posts
    2,589

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    Re: plugging return pipe. If you don't plug the return rain snow etc may raise the water level over it and fill it allowing it to freeze. The skimmer likewise needs some type of protection. Some people use an aqua door some just use a gizmo and some plug it and add a bottle that is half full of rocks as a sacrificial expansion point (the bottle can be crushed when is forms protecting the skimmer).

    Main drains as mentioned just allow water from below to circulate to the pump. If you close the skimmer valve and open the main drain valves and run the pump you should see the pump prime and water come out from the return.


    - Sent using Tapatalk
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  10. Back To Top    #10
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Mint Hill, NC
    Posts
    2,589

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    Is that a cartridge filter?


    - Sent using Tapatalk
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tecumseh, MI
    Posts
    53

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats
    The floor drain is really not a drain as you are thinking. They pull the water out of the pool to the pool filter. The water from the floor drains go where the water from the skimmer goes.

    Floor drain-it is open at all times. It does not close/open. There is water in the lines at all times. When you turn the handle of the bottom valve it allows the water to flow from the bottom pool drain to the filter. If you close the bottom valve as it is now the water will just sit in the pipes SO may be a danger of freezing/busting!

    When I open that valve, NO water goes to the filter. The only water that goes to the filter is what comes through the skimmer basket and down through that branch. I DO notice that it vents air when I open that lower valve, but not water comes up through that valve. (though I will check one more time just to be sure)

    Your gutters-I wonder if they go to a french drain or some such instead of the septic. I have never heard of gutters going to septic (does not mean it does not happen but....). That would be a LOT of water and the septic field would not last long.

    Sorry if I wasn't clear here - I don't have septic, I"m in the city, so it drains to the city sewer lines (I assume).

    I hope this helps a little bit.

    Keep asking questions until you really understand what needs to be done. Read Pool school until you have it down!

    already have numerous times but thanks

    GOOD LUCK!

    Kim
    ~12,500 sqft above ground, 95 sq ft Sta-Rite Posi-Clear Cartridge filter, installed by previous owner in 2010?, Proud TF100 user!

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tecumseh, MI
    Posts
    53

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderWaterVanya
    Is that a cartridge filter?


    - Sent using Tapatalk
    Why yes, it is (I think that's what you call them...I have two ruffle filters that I rotate each week in the tub/canister)
    ~12,500 sqft above ground, 95 sq ft Sta-Rite Posi-Clear Cartridge filter, installed by previous owner in 2010?, Proud TF100 user!

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tecumseh, MI
    Posts
    53

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderWaterVanya
    Main drains as mentioned just allow water from below to circulate to the pump. If you close the skimmer valve and open the main drain valves and run the pump you should see the pump prime and water come out from the return.


    - Sent using Tapatalk
    OOOOHHhhhhhhhh......ok now i get it...OK, so with my pump & filter all put away for the year, if I close the skimmer valve and open the main drain valve, should I expect to see any water come out (strictly from pressure)? Or does it require the pump to actually suck water from the bottom drains?

    Also, WHEN are you supposed to actually use those? Is there a specific reason for having them (like cleaning water from the bottom of the pool?) or do they serve a specific purpose?

    SHOULD I be able to "drain/lower my water level" using these things?

    Thanks UWV, I at least have a slight clue what's going on here, that being that my assumption that it was connected to the gutters & sewer was WRONG.
    ~12,500 sqft above ground, 95 sq ft Sta-Rite Posi-Clear Cartridge filter, installed by previous owner in 2010?, Proud TF100 user!

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,347

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiesman84
    OOOOHHhhhhhhhh......ok now i get it...OK, so with my pump & filter all put away for the year, if I close the skimmer valve and open the main drain valve, should I expect to see any water come out (strictly from pressure)? Or does it require the pump to actually suck water from the bottom drains?
    The water will flow out the open pipe from the MD's if you open tha valve. No suction reqiured.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiesman84
    Also, WHEN are you supposed to actually use those? Is there a specific reason for having them (like cleaning water from the bottom of the pool?) or do they serve a specific purpose?
    The purpose is to help keep the bottom of the pool clean by sucking water from the bottom. It's also to improve circulation in the pool. They can be used when using the skimmer. You adjust the valve from the skimmer and the one from the MD's so that you're drawing water from both. They also allow the pump to draw water if the water level is bleow the skimmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiesman84
    SHOULD I be able to "drain/lower my water level" using these things?
    Yes, That's another use for them. You can close the skimmer valve and virtually empty the pool through the MD's.

    In winterizing, I'd close the slide valve on the front of the pump, open the skimmer and MD valve, remove the hose from the bottom of the skimmer and hold it above the water line and pour antifreeze in it until you see it come out the MD's in the pool. Then close all the valves. Another way would be to take the hose off the slide valve and hold it above the water line, close the skimmer valve, open the MD valve and pour the antifreeze in that way.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  15. Back To Top    #15
    msgtdan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    SW MO
    Posts
    653

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    Just to be clear the anti-freeze you use is RV anti-freeze not automotive anti-freeze. RV anti-freeze is used to protect the water and sewer systems in RV's and is non-toxic.
    Dan D
    Used 2003 Aqua Leader 27'x52", 17,800 w/10" hopper, SwimPro SW256T 250# sand filter, Hayward PowerFlo LX pump 1hp impellor, Emerson 1 1/2 hp motor, setup Aug 2012 Summer 2011 used Summer Escapes Ring pool 14' x 42", Intex 1600gph sand filter, HTH 6 way test kitTF-100 w/stirrer, Well water @ FC=0, PH=7.2, TA=290, CH=320

  16. Back To Top    #16
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Mint Hill, NC
    Posts
    2,589

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    RE:Why you use main drains? It's pretty much covered above but to add some detail - there are two big reasons. First by having TWO sources of water flow - if your skimmer gets clogged with leaves your pump won't starve. Second - it improves water flow - your return is very close to your skimmer - and some of the water you are returning to the pool may be sucked in by the skimmer - the other water in the pool may sit stagnant (by comparison). If you pull water from the bottom also you improve the movement of water in the pool ensuring you reduce the dead spots where water sits stagnant.

    BTW - The reason you have two drains has to do with the law - the two drains prevent someone from getting stuck to them and drowning.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tecumseh, MI
    Posts
    53

    Re: Can someone look @ these pics and answer a couple questi

    Thank you Bama, UWV, and msgtdan, that info is immensly helpful!!!

    Those sounds like much easier ways to get the AntiFreeze in there since I've already got the pump put away and pool covered...your ideas, plus my compressor/air hose from my air-impact wrench set, and maybe the end of a plunger (to form a seal) ought to allow me to get some water out of the line and some A-F in.

    Thanks!!!
    ~12,500 sqft above ground, 95 sq ft Sta-Rite Posi-Clear Cartridge filter, installed by previous owner in 2010?, Proud TF100 user!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •