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Thread: Motor short, options

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    Motor short, options

    Hi;


    Had my pool/pump off for about a couple weeks. Went to turn it back on so I could close it for the season and now the pump is tripping the circuit breaker when it comes on. Using an ohm meter I was able to find that the motor is shorting (touching the hot and ground shows continuity). This is the second time I had this pump serviced, the first time for some seals or something. Its only about 5 years old.

    When pumps short out, does that mean their done? Would it be worth having this one repaired again?

    EDIT: Just talked to a motor repair place and apparently there's SUPPOSED to be continuity between hot and neutral, like a light bulb.


    TIA,
    Kevin
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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Motor short, options

    Does it start to spin, then trip then trip the breaker?
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    Re: Motor short, options

    Good question. I checked it and it spins freely. When I turn it on it trips the circuit right away. I guess to be 100% sure I should visually see if it starts to spin when turned on?
    16x32 Concrete IG
    Equipment: Carvin 525sf Cartridge Filter, Jandy Gas Heater, Vortex Solar Panels w/solar valve, 1hp Hayward Pump with 3/4 HP AO Smith 2 Speed Replacement Motor, Aquarite Saltwater Cell, Polaris 280 Dolphin Active 20 Robot
    Automation: Hayward Prologic Controller

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    Re: Motor short, options

    Between hot and neutral (white wire) there should be 1-2 ohms of resistance. However, between hot and ground (green wire), there should be infinite resistance.

    You mentioned both but which did you actually measure?
    Mark
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    Re: Motor short, options

    Between hot and neutral (white wire) there should be 1-2 ohms of resistance. However, between hot and ground (green wire), there should be infinite resistance.
    If it is a 110v motor with a hot and neutral, and the neutral is still hooked up to the panel, wouldn't you have a measurable resistance between the hot and ground, since the ground and neutral are bonded together at the panel?


    What voltage is this motor?
    If it is a 220v then none of this matters.

    Best to disconnect or isolate all feeds when testing a motor.

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    Re: Motor short, options

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Between hot and neutral (white wire) there should be 1-2 ohms of resistance. However, between hot and ground (green wire), there should be infinite resistance.

    You mentioned both but which did you actually measure?

    Between hot and neutral on the pump contacts (with wiring back to panel disconnected) I get continuity. Between hot and ground there's no continuity.

    BTW, what I call continuity means a connect circuit, ie. not open. When you say infinite resistance does that mean there's a connection or its open?
    16x32 Concrete IG
    Equipment: Carvin 525sf Cartridge Filter, Jandy Gas Heater, Vortex Solar Panels w/solar valve, 1hp Hayward Pump with 3/4 HP AO Smith 2 Speed Replacement Motor, Aquarite Saltwater Cell, Polaris 280 Dolphin Active 20 Robot
    Automation: Hayward Prologic Controller

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    Re: Motor short, options

    Continuity is nearly zero resistance. On some motors and bulbs, 1-2 Ohms is normal. You are mesasuring the resistance of the wire in the motor which is generally very low. So the difference between what you read with the meter leads touching and what you read measuring across the motor is important.

    Infinite resistance is what you see with the meter leads not touching anything.

    Since you aren't seeing any continuity to ground, it doesn't really sound like the breaker is tripping from overcurrent, but rather the GFCI. Is this a GFCI breaker?

    If this is an outdoor pump and you've been having cold nights, you may have some condensation inside the pump causing your issue.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Motor short, options

    Yep, its a GFCI breaker. And we have had weather thats gone from 60's and wet to 30's overnight. So, would the condensation be inside the pump, where the motor windings (?) are? That would explain this happening all the sudden. All wiring connections look good, no signs of shorts or anything.

    I can see where the GFCI would be more sensitive to any moisture and trip.

    I'm tempted to just use a different pump to lower the water level then worry about it in the spring.
    16x32 Concrete IG
    Equipment: Carvin 525sf Cartridge Filter, Jandy Gas Heater, Vortex Solar Panels w/solar valve, 1hp Hayward Pump with 3/4 HP AO Smith 2 Speed Replacement Motor, Aquarite Saltwater Cell, Polaris 280 Dolphin Active 20 Robot
    Automation: Hayward Prologic Controller

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    Re: Motor short, options

    I'd expect the problem to be more in the wiring section on the back.
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    Re: Motor short, options

    Well it definitely something with the pump. When I disconnect the hot in the pump and turn it on the circuit doesn't trip. When I connect the hot then it trips. So, in theory I ruled out everything leading right up to the pump connections.
    16x32 Concrete IG
    Equipment: Carvin 525sf Cartridge Filter, Jandy Gas Heater, Vortex Solar Panels w/solar valve, 1hp Hayward Pump with 3/4 HP AO Smith 2 Speed Replacement Motor, Aquarite Saltwater Cell, Polaris 280 Dolphin Active 20 Robot
    Automation: Hayward Prologic Controller

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    Re: Motor short, options

    Could be moisture in the pump, or a bad GFCI breaker.
    If you can do so safely, with no one swimming, connect the hot lead to another (non gfci) breaker and try it. Might just warm it up and get rid of moisture.

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    Re: Motor short, options

    I had similar symptoms last week.

    Does the motor hum before tripping the breaker?

    If so, check the starting capacitor. That's the big hump on top of the motor near the rear. They have a tendency to short out when they fail - tripping breakers.
    Bill

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    Re: Motor short, options

    No, no hum. It trips right away. I changed the capacitor (had an extra one on standby) and it still trips. Was the capacitor your issue?
    16x32 Concrete IG
    Equipment: Carvin 525sf Cartridge Filter, Jandy Gas Heater, Vortex Solar Panels w/solar valve, 1hp Hayward Pump with 3/4 HP AO Smith 2 Speed Replacement Motor, Aquarite Saltwater Cell, Polaris 280 Dolphin Active 20 Robot
    Automation: Hayward Prologic Controller

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    Re: Motor short, options

    Yes. That's the 2nd one I replaced in 3 years.
    Bill

    13' X 25', raised SitNSpin spa, 12,500 Gal, light grey plaster, 3" suction lines, 2 1/2" return lines, 5 returns, infloor cleaning system, 280 sq ft solar panels, Pentair EasyTouch 8, Autelis wireless iPhone Control, Intelliflo VS pump, IntelliChlor IC40, IntelliPH, Pentair CC plus 420 cartridge filter, Pentair MasterTemp 400k btu heater.

    Weather Website http://sbrsouth.com

    Every day is a good day. Some are just better than others!

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