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Thread: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

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    Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    I have the following setup and am looking for advice.

    21K chlorine in-ground with old Nautilus DE-36 filter with a Pentair SuperFlow 1.5HP pump and 1.5" pumping. I also have a booster pump for the Polaris. Picture attached.

    Pump is old and inefficient and is howling due to bearings being worn.

    I am thinking about replacing with the following and would like thoughts/advice.

    1) Pentair Intelliflow (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005G3 ... KDG42D8KUC)
    2) Hayward Sand Filter S244T 24-Inch Top-Mount Sand Filter with 1-1/2-Inch Vari-Flo Valve (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EY ... KDG42D8KUC)

    Thanks for any advice!!

    Robert

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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    Picture of current setup.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    Welcome to TFP.

    Where are you located?
    Unless you have some special water feature(s) and/or are in an area with high electric rates you're most likely better off with a 2-speed pump.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    Hey Dave. I am in Atlanta. I like to keep my pool open year round. I might need to run the pool 24 hours during some of the colder winter nights. I have NO water features. Pretty basic standard setup. You think 2-speed would be the way to go? How do you switch from one RPM to the other? Is there a timer like on the variable speed ones?

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    You can either have a manual switch to select speeds (what I currently do). Or you can add a timer to switch speed if you want.

    Likely you could just leave the pump on low speed, and switch it to high for vacuuming, backwashing, etc.

    By running on low most of the time you will same most of the electricity savings, but only pay about half for the new pump. Actually, if your wet end is decent, all you would need to do is replace the motor with a 2-speed motor. You could get by with a smaller pump as well for more savings, the 1HP 2-speed could be a good option, although if you decrease the motor size you will also need to also decrease the impeller size.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    You can get a timer setup for 2-speed pumps.
    In Atlanta your electric rates are probably pretty low and without any water features a variable speed will be overkill.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    Thanks for the feedback. Which pump would you recommend? Kind of confusing for a person not in the know.

    THANKS!

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    Is your current pump 120V or 240V?

    If 240V, I would think the Superflo 1HP, 2-speed would be plenty ... and would be the cheapest option as it will only require a new motor and impeller ... and no plumbing change required. Or on the Hayward side you could get a Super Pump.

    Having only a single 1.5" suction line, means you do not really want/need the larger Whisperflo or Super II Pump.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    My pump says 230/115 Volts. Not sure why it has 2 numbers. Thanks for all of the advice. This is helpful!

    Robert

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    That means it could be wired up either way. What type of breaker is the pump on? What kind of timer is the pump on? What color are the wires going to the pump (although this is not the best was to determine the voltage if you have a bad electrician)
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    Just went and looked and the timer box is a T106R (http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/elect ... -277v-spdt) and the wires going to the pump are RED. The breaker box has a "20" on the switches. Does that help? This is scaring me a bit as I don't know what all of this means. I was thinking I could replace this myself.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    Well, there should be 2 red wires and a green one going to the pump right? ... that points toward 240V

    The T106R is 240V swtich, but only has a single switch, so it does not switch both "hot" legs to off ... generally not good practice, the T104R would be better for the On/Off application. The T106R is actually a good choice for selecting high/low speed. Anyway, this also points to a 240V motor.

    The 20 on the breaker is just the amp rating ... if it is 240V, there should be 2 wires connecting to 2 breakers that have the switches connected.

    It is not terribly difficult to install ... especially if you get a 240V motor and just use a toggle switch. It is a little more tricky if you want to add a 2nd timer and have the speed controlled automatically. Certainly you never want to work on wires unless you are 100% confident that they have no power running in them. If you are not, then you should consider hiring someone.

    A current danger: just because your current motor is not on and the timer switch is off ... does NOT mean there is no power in the motor. This is because the T106R only cuts the power to 1 of the 2 hot legs. So one wire in the motor is ALWAYS hot when the breaker is on, even though the motor is not running and the timer is off. Touching that wire and the ground will certainly zap you at the least.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    Ok. So if I go with a 1HP, 2-speed, 240V pump (Like the SF-N2-1A http://www.pentairpool.com/pool-owner/p ... ps-165.htm), can I use the T106R to switch between high and low on the pump? How does this work?

    Also, would I run the pump mostly in low speed? Or do I only run it on high when the Polaris is running? Just trying to make sure I understand.

    Finally, would this setup work ok with the Hayward Sand Filter S244T 24-Inch Top-Mount Sand Filter with 1-1/2-Inch Vari-Flo Valve (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EY ... KDG42D8KUC)??

    Thanks Jason for the great help. I got a quote today from Leslie's Pool for $1600 for just a single speed and the sand filter installed. I can save myself about $800 or more.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    It all depends on how you want to use the pump.

    I bought the SF-N2-1A and it had a switch on it already to manually pick the speeds. I had just been leaving it on low 24/7. I just installed my solar heat, so now I have it only run in the day on high speed (eventually I will have an automation setup that will change the speed for me). I just change it when I need to.

    I am not sure if the pump needs to be on high for the booster or not. If not, just leave the pump on low.
    If you do not need to automatically change the speed, just use the time you have to control the on/off time.

    If you were considering that Superflo, you already have a super flow, so you could just buy a 2-speed motor (and impeller) and install it on your existing pump. Can you read the HP and SF (service factor) off your existing motor?

    For a pool your size, our general recommendation would be minimums of 58 sqft for a DE filter, 300 sqft for a cartridge filter, or 4 sqft for a sand filter. That 24" sand filter is a little on the smaller side ... you would require less backwashing if you got at least the S270T 27".
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by foush
    Ok. So if I go with a 1HP, 2-speed, 240V pump (Like the SF-N2-1A http://www.pentairpool.com/pool-owner/p ... ps-165.htm), can I use the T106R to switch between high and low on the pump? How does this work?
    You can add a T104 timer to the T106 and then basically have a dual speed timer. The 106 switches the pump on and off and the 104 switches between speeds. Or you can switch speeds manually.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Quote Originally Posted by foush
    Ok. So if I go with a 1HP, 2-speed, 240V pump (Like the SF-N2-1A http://www.pentairpool.com/pool-owner/p ... ps-165.htm), can I use the T106R to switch between high and low on the pump? How does this work?
    You can add a T104 timer to the T106 and then basically have a dual speed timer. The 106 switches the pump on and off and the 104 switches between speeds. Or you can switch speeds manually.
    I think you have those backward: T104 switches On/Off and the T106 switches speeds ... or I have greatly confused myself and given out bad info in a few other threads.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    Thanks Mark. I am not sure I am up for that right now but sounds like something I can do in the future. How does the T106 control the pump? I assume it will tell me how to set this up in the manual??

    JASON - The HP is 1.5 and the SF is 1.10 and the SFHP is 1.65. I think my pump has a leak anyway so I would just do it all as one deal. Don't they normally come together as one unit?

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    Sure you can buy a pump/motor combo ... but often the motors go bad before the pump, so it is also easy to replace just the motor. Where is your pump leaking? If it is on the shaft near the motor, that seal would need to be replaced with the new motor anyway. Up to you, just giving options.

    The T106 by itself, would to exactly what it is currently doing with the new 2 speed pump, switching 1 leg of the power on and off.

    If you wanted to add the T104, you would have that switch both legs of the power on/off. Then 1 leg would go from the T104 to a common terminal in the T106. The other leg would go to a SPDT relay in the T106, this would switch the power from 1 speed or the other. For this setup, you actually would need 3 wires + the ground from the T106 to the motor. One wire being from the common in the T106, one wire being from one side of the SPDT to the pump for low speed, and one wire from the other side of the SPDT to the pump for the high speed. You then set up the tabs in the T106 to be times to switch speeds ... and the T104 is the override that tells it when to be on/off.

    {Although now I suddenly am questioning the wiring ... I have never done it myself, since I do not understand where the T106 would be getting power to run the timer if the T104 turned off both legs of the power to the T106. If you decide to go this route, we will get it figured out}

    BTW, there are some places that sell the T104 and T106 in the same enclosure for similar purposes
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by foush
    Just went and looked and the timer box is a T106R (http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/elect ... -277v-spdt) and the wires going to the pump are RED. The breaker box has a "20" on the switches. Does that help? This is scaring me a bit as I don't know what all of this means. I was thinking I could replace this myself.
    Sorry this statement threw me off some. I had it backwards but then I don't understand why you would already have a 106 although it can be wired for just on off.

    Anyway, here is how it is wired:

    http://www.poolplaza.com/2-speed-timer-wiring.shtml
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Filter and Pump Replace Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    {Although now I suddenly am questioning the wiring ... I have never done it myself, since I do not understand where the T106 would be getting power to run the timer if the T104 turned off both legs of the power to the T106. If you decide to go this route, we will get it figured out}
    According to the link that Mark posted, you would just have to run an extra pair of wires from the T104 to power the clock in the T106 if they are in separate enclosures.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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