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Thread: Suction Line "gurgles" when open for prolonged periods

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Suction Line "gurgles" when open for prolonged periods

    Yes, me again with same lousy problem, now trying to see if weird stuff observed might establish cause of the leak in the suction side.

    Two things:

    I have had the suction line open over a week while creating a cement pad for the pump. From time to time, it would produce the gurgle sound of water leaking or doing something that should not happen when all inlets and outlets are submerged.

    The more bizarre part is that the water level was even with the suction line - shouldn't it have been as far below the ground as the pool's water level?

    Upon re-assembly this afternoon (worse than before, thank you), I find I can now not only FILL the basket with a slow flow, I can make it overflow. This is an IG pool/spa - how does water rise above its level?

    It did take a substantial amount of water to raise the level (there is 40' of 2" between the pump and the pool/spa).

    Upon starting (pool returns are not visible from pad), there was a massive ripple created, making me think there was a whole bunch of air in the initial discharge - the paving around the pool at the return was wet - some thing splashed. There is no evidence of air in the return after that initial blast.

    I opened the bleed valve on the filter - it eventually discharged water, but not entirely without air - the pressure valve never moved above zero.

    At least this time, shutoff did NOT produce an explosion in the basket sump.

    How likely is it that a 30 year old Ortega valve could be the culprit?

    I did a quick version of the saran wrap test on the basket cover and both unions on the suction line. Neither did the water level rise significantly, but the wrap showed no desire to stick to any spot.

    So - a pipe supposed to have a water level even with the pool and have a constant level gurgles and supports water ABOVE the pool level (until shut down, whereupon the water is barely able to cover the impeller inlet.
    Q: where should it have ended up?

    One last item - as a short-cut to getting everything noce and aligned, I shimmed up the rear of the pump. The water is now required to travel up about 7-10 degrees. Given the lift capability of a 1 1/2 hp pump. I figured it could handle it. I mention it in case it could have some bearing.

    I am now seriously considering the surface-level replacement - how much of such a line (tap the skimmer and run PVC back to the pad) - how much, if any, of it would need to be sch 80? The existing is sch 40 at the pool and sch 80 coming out of the ground. Surface is preferred because the 40' involved is all paved. Yes, this IS a nightmare.

    Thanks again
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Suction Line "gurgles" when open for prolonged periods

    What is the saran wrap test?

    -sent with Tapatalk 2
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Re: Suction Line "gurgles" when open for prolonged periods

    Saran wrap is air-proof, but flexes easily - if a joint is sucking in air, it should pull the saran wrap into the hole and/or hold onto it when you attempt to remove it.

    There are only 3 joints in this line - 2 unions (one being Hayward's early Northstar design on the pump (see earlier thread for link) and an el. The amount of air getting into these pumps seems far more than any combination of flaws likely in that of a simple a run.

    I'm 63 and have done supply and DWV plumbing (including an entire new bathroom) without any greater problem than a leaky kitchen drain line.

    Why, with so much air in the basket, is there none in the discharge? This doesn't add up
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    happyheathen's Avatar
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    Screw It...

    Using a mallet to "help" Hayward's "Quarter-Turn for everything" on the basket cover has got it to the point that water occasionally laps at the top of the basket, and the relief valve no longer spits.
    The water level actually rose from its starting level! Opening the basket cover now produces a distinct "pop" .
    Still get noo reading on the pressure guage, but will attribute that to my using a bottom-mount gauge on a side-mount appplication. May try a rear-mount

    Never did get a response to "how much air can be tolerated without burning up the pump?", but I will declare 1 1/2" as the answer. I have stage 4 kidney failure - there is only so much time I am going to spend on pool pumps.

    Thanks again for tolerating my zen-type questions.

    I'll hang around and see if I can help the next person.
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Jun 2012
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    Re: Suction Line "gurgles" when open for prolonged periods

    Quote Originally Posted by happyheathen
    Using a mallet to "help" Hayward's "Quarter-Turn for everything" on the basket cover has got it to the point that water occasionally laps at the top of the basket, and the relief valve no longer spits.
    The water level actually rose from its starting level! Opening the basket cover now produces a distinct "pop" .
    Still get noo reading on the pressure guage, but will attribute that to my using a bottom-mount gauge on a side-mount appplication. May try a rear-mount

    Never did get a response to "how much air can be tolerated without burning up the pump?", but I will declare 1 1/2" as the answer. I have stage 4 kidney failure - there is only so much time I am going to spend on pool pumps.

    Thanks again for tolerating my zen-type questions.

    I'll hang around and see if I can help the next person.
    Wish there was a "like this post" button.


    - Sent using Tapatalk
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    happyheathen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Sacramento CA
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    Always nice to be appreciated

    Happy to induce smiles whenever possible
    Dave
    Sacramento
    1980's 15,000 Gal IG Plaster; 1 1/2 hp Hayward Northstar; Hayward Swimclear C3025 Cartridge Filter (325 sq ft, nom.); Pentair Legend; Polaris PB4-60; Equipment 40' from pool. p.s.: it's an aye-aye.

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