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Thread: TA,pH Low? And other questions

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    esim13's Avatar
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    TA,pH Low? And other questions

    Current readings:
    FC - 0
    CC - 0
    ph - 7.0
    TA - 30 (burgundy looking), 40 (bright red)
    CYA 20? (stopped even with the top of the vial and couldn't see dot)

    A little background... I'm usually very thorough at keeping my chems in check. About a month ago my tubing from top of filter to pump sprang a leak. Finally got it fixed (the second try ). Hurricane Issac payed me a visit with lots of rain. Pool filled and overflowed for several hours. FC management went by the wayside... now I'm green. I've started the shocking process bringing and holding my FC to 14 (iphone level). I'm very confused as to why my pH is so low. I've never had to add BS to bring it up, have always had to add MA to lower it. Not sure what happened to TA. I know the loss of water during Isaac lowered my CYA.

    What would you do with pH and CYA - bring them up or wait til done shocking?

    THANKS!
    10,408 gallon, 21' round, 52 in' deep AG, half in ground
    Artesian Clear Master Plus Sand Filter, Artesian Turbo King 2 hp pump, installed June 08
    Denham Springs, Louisiana
    GEAUX TIGERS!
    Pics taken 2012
    http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad25 ... CN0606.jpg
    http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad25 ... CN0607.jpg

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    Re: TA,pH Low? And other questions

    Rain water is often low in TA so that's probably how it got lowered along with the CYA. I'd add some baking soda to get your TA up a bit, probably to 60 ppm or so unless you know your pH is stable at higher TA levels. The baking soda will somewhat raise the pH, but not a lot, and that's OK. Then shock the pool. Unless you are losing a lot of chlorine from sunlight this time of year, you can wait on raising the CYA until after you've cleared the pool. Of you can do some initial shock using Dichlor which will raise FC and CYA at the same time, but don't overdo it since you don't want to overshoot CYA (I wouldn't raise it above 40 ppm at this point).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: TA,pH Low? And other questions

    If your CYA test went all the way to the top of the viewtube and you have the tube where the last mark at the top is 20ppm, but yet it was still cloudy enough to fully obscure the dot but not until it reached all the way to the top, past 20ppm, then it's less than 20ppm.
    Assuming the cloudyness wasn't already there from algea before you added the melamine solution, then it's <20ppm.

    Less CYA is desireable for shocking as it requires less CL to shock, but that's awefully low and you may have problems keeping up with CL dmeand during the day, due to consumption by UV rays from the sun.
    See how that goes, if it's droping too fast compared to night time, then bump your CYA by 10ppm, tie a sock to a lader & squeeze regularly.
    Then re-test later. It's supposed to take a week to show up in the test, but many people here seem to find otherwise.

    14ppm is a little high, as even at 20 ppm mustard shock, the max level is 12.7ppm/13 rounded.
    10ppm is 7.1 mustard, so I'd split the difference at 10ppm, but it's recomended to only go to mustard levels for the last 24hrs after completing normal shock procedure, since you don't have mustard, I would shock at std level, in between 10 & 20ppm CYA = 6.5ppm.
    It's OK to hit mustard shock levels for a while, but all day, day & night for days on edn is probably not a good idea.

    One thing that confuses me is that you say you're shocking the pool, yet your FC readings are 0.
    You need to get CL in there pronto, shock or not.

    pH, don't worry about it, shocking will bring it up with high CL levels and then it'll fall back down more to it's natural order when shocking is complete.

    Yes, TA is below what is recommended for any pool, but some people find really low TA such as yours is their sweet spot, as it keeps pH stable or down, so you don't have to keep adding MA everytime you sneeze.
    So leave that as is, then watch your pH when shocking completes and give it a few days to stabilize then see what happens with it. 7.0 is below the recommended minimum, but isn't alarmingly low. That said I wouldn't swim in it without goggles on. Just leave it till you are done shocking.
    It's easier to bring TA up, then it is to bring it down.

    Remember, you can't test pH when FC levels are above 10ppm, so don't even bother.

    Keep your filter cleared out, keep brushing and vcacuum as needed, while keeping on top of that CL addition to keep your FC levels up.

    Happy shocking, and remember the 3 criteria: Water Clear, <0.5CC, OCLT < or = 1.0ppm.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    y_not's Avatar
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    Re: TA,pH Low? And other questions

    Drat Richard!! :P
    Ya beat me to it.

    So he should raise TA?
    I figured since he had a history of adding MA regularly, that he should take advantage of it ant just leave it alone till he's done shocking, then see how his pH goes from there on out.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Re: TA,pH Low? And other questions

    Thanks Chem Geek! I went to Wally World for the bleach before I tested... I know, stupid me, so I didn't get the baking soda. I'll get it tomorrow when I restock the bleach. I did get 2 HTH Super pucks to throw in there too. So I'm shocking to 14 with 2 pucks. Wally World didn't have any CYA left so I may just continue with the pucks for now, keeping a watchful eye on CYA. I'm in full sun, lucky me - hahahaha!
    10,408 gallon, 21' round, 52 in' deep AG, half in ground
    Artesian Clear Master Plus Sand Filter, Artesian Turbo King 2 hp pump, installed June 08
    Denham Springs, Louisiana
    GEAUX TIGERS!
    Pics taken 2012
    http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad25 ... CN0606.jpg
    http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad25 ... CN0607.jpg

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    esim13's Avatar
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    Re: TA,pH Low? And other questions

    Thanks, y-not. Sorry for the confusion - I am shocking. I added the bleach after I posted my test results. I'm currently at FC 14, losing about 2ppm an hour, so I may be back down to 12 since it's been about an hour since I last tested. Waiting for the rain to slack to test again. I'm using 14 as my highest level based on the pool calc on my iphone, which is high shock/mustard shock on the phone. My CYA tube stops at 30 with a lil bit of tube left at the top, when it reached the top I lost the dot. I have the k-2006.
    10,408 gallon, 21' round, 52 in' deep AG, half in ground
    Artesian Clear Master Plus Sand Filter, Artesian Turbo King 2 hp pump, installed June 08
    Denham Springs, Louisiana
    GEAUX TIGERS!
    Pics taken 2012
    http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad25 ... CN0606.jpg
    http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad25 ... CN0607.jpg

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    Re: TA,pH Low? And other questions

    The main reason to raise the TA some is that shocking with bleach or chlorinating liquid will raise the pH and if the TA is very low then the pH swing can be pretty high. Not a huge deal, however.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    esim13's Avatar
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    Re: TA,pH Low? And other questions

    Just realized I have the new 8.25% bleach. It says for standard and HE machines... is this okay to use? I saw on another post not to use the one for HE but this says it's for both. Does anyone know?
    Also, probably going to have to use computer instead of iphone for pool calc. The iphone app doesn't have 8.25% as a bleach option. It has 8% and I changed it to use the 8% but on the FC tab is still shows what to add for using 6%. I guess that's why my FC of 14 is only dropping to 13.5 between additions (adding higher concentration).. I'll have to back it down a bit. Thanks for listening!
    10,408 gallon, 21' round, 52 in' deep AG, half in ground
    Artesian Clear Master Plus Sand Filter, Artesian Turbo King 2 hp pump, installed June 08
    Denham Springs, Louisiana
    GEAUX TIGERS!
    Pics taken 2012
    http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad25 ... CN0606.jpg
    http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad25 ... CN0607.jpg

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: TA,pH Low? And other questions

    as a rule of thumb ever gallon of 8.25% will raise your FC by 8.25ppm per 10,000 gallons and since you are so close to 10k gallons just assume 8ppm/gallon of 8.25% bleach...
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: TA,pH Low? And other questions

    Just make sure you use the bleach that does not have thickeners or scent in it. See this post for the different Clorox bleaches. If it says "High Efficiency" on the front of the bottle, then it contains cetyl betaine and sodium xylene sulfonate which thicken the product and in pools may lead to foaming. Clorox makes a concentrated regular bleach and that (or the germicidal bleach) is what you should use, if you are using Clorox (or you can use an off-brand if it's just bleach and at least 6%).

    The Regular concentrated Clorox bleach may say it can be used in regular and HE machines. That's one reason why they made the bleach more concentrated since the compartments for bleach in the HE machines are smaller so to get sufficient bleaching they raised the concentration (see this article for example).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    esim13's Avatar
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    Re: TA,pH Low? And other questions

    Thanks guys! No foaming but still green this morning. I was hoping at least for a dull, milky, cloudy shade of blue, especially since I overshot it with the higher concentration. I was also hoping these two days of rain and no direct sun would help too. I'll keep at it tho.. I've seen the benefits!
    I was really confused before I figured it out. I kept wondering why I wasn't losing more ppms, did a little investigation and viola - 8.25%! When I was shooting for 14 I was really going over since it was a higher concentration. I looked back this morning and realized I never really knew what I was getting my FC level to. How long after I add bleach can I retest to see if I hit my target? I tested at 6:45am FC 11.5, at 8:30am FC 15. I know I over shot it that time! I'm not supposed to go over 14 - aghhh!
    10,408 gallon, 21' round, 52 in' deep AG, half in ground
    Artesian Clear Master Plus Sand Filter, Artesian Turbo King 2 hp pump, installed June 08
    Denham Springs, Louisiana
    GEAUX TIGERS!
    Pics taken 2012
    http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad25 ... CN0606.jpg
    http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad25 ... CN0607.jpg

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    Re: TA,pH Low? And other questions

    You can test it after it's well circulated, usually within an hour (sometimes faster if you've got good circulation), but I wouldn't worry about overshooting. It'll come back down fairly fast if the pool is exposed to sunlight.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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