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Thread: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

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    Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    Hi

    FC 5.5
    TA 90
    PH 7.6
    CH 320
    CYA 70

    I have just gotten my pool to nearly where I want it. It was still slightly cloudy (maybe 5%) so I decided to add a water clarifier .

    http://www.hyclor.com.au/pdfs/Products/Brochure/Brochure%20Water%20Clarifier.pdf
    Put it in and the whole pool went milky cloudy.

    This product is Poly-diallyidimethylammonium chloride.

    I am so Peed off ( with myself as well )as I've taken 2 weeks to get my pool right. I rang the makers of the product and he said it shouldnt make the pool go cloudy and to run the filter 24/7 to try to clear it up.

    The only other product in there it could maybe be reacting with is my Scale and Stain inhibitor. Active Constituent: Acrylic Polymer Complex.

    i'm not a chemical guy but i'm really worried if this stays this way and doesn't filter out.

    Any ideas
    19,000 gallons
    Zodiac Tri Series SWG
    Hayward S310T Sand Filter
    Poolrite SQI 600 pump.
    IG Concrete, quartzon surface
    Built 1997

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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    It will likely filter out on it's own. I have no idea why it turned cloudy.

    Clarifiers and Flocculants seem to be a mixed bag......sometimes they work but often they either do nothing or, in your case, cause some harm.

    Why do you have the stain and scale inhibitor in there? I assume it is a sequestrant.....have you tested positive for metal in your water?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    The clarifier, which is PolyDADMAC, is a cationic (positively charged) polymer. The metal sequestrant, which is an acrylic polymer complex such as poly acrylic acid (PAA), is an anionic (negatively charged) polymer because the acid dissociates. So these two likely combined forming a milky precipitate/suspension. It should eventually filter out, but realize that you effectively removed your metal sequestrant. In general, polymer metal sequestrants will have a negative charge since they are to bond with positively charged metals (e.g. iron, copper) while many clarifiers are positively charged since they are designed to bond with the negatively charged surfaces of cells (e.g. algae). So unless you know the chemical compositions and are careful, one should not use a clarifier and a metal sequestrant at the same time.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    ..., one should not use a clarifier and a metal sequestrant at the same time.
    That's good to know! I'll be stuffing that in the ole cranium for future reference. I never use clarifier or sequestrant but hopefully it'll help someone in the future.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    How much clarifier did you add?
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    Thanks for your replies.

    I only added the correct dose i.e. 1.4 litres

    I added the Acrylic Polymer Complex (https://www.quartzon.com.au/calstop.php) at the recommendation of the pool surface manufacturers to help with the calcium buildups on the surface which these pools (Quartzon ) are apparently renouned for.

    I am now understanding more about balance and CSI so I wonder if I dont need to put the Acrylic Polymer Complex if I keep the CSI close to 0.

    I'm hoping this doesn't affect any of my other chemicals

    Thanks
    Brad
    19,000 gallons
    Zodiac Tri Series SWG
    Hayward S310T Sand Filter
    Poolrite SQI 600 pump.
    IG Concrete, quartzon surface
    Built 1997

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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue114

    I only added the correct dose i.e. 1.4 litres
    Thats the issue. You waayy over-dosed the clarifier. For 19,000 gallons, maybe 4-8 ounces is all you need. You added ~10 times the amount of clarifier you were actually supposed to use. Anything over that, you run into the milky problem. What happens when you add too much clarifier is that all the little particles clump together too much an end up as a colloidal suspension. When that happens, the whole thing turns cloudy. It'll clear but it will take a while. Run the filter 24/7 until is clears. Watch the pressure so you'll know when to clean the filter. While the sequesterant interaction could be an issue, I highly doubt it.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    Thanks bk406. I followed the directions on the bottle. 20ml per 1000 litres. I put it in and slowly saw the water tranforming to this milky muck. Not daylight here yet but will have a look this morning and report back. I've had the filter going non stop since I did it 19 hrs. ago.
    Brad
    19,000 gallons
    Zodiac Tri Series SWG
    Hayward S310T Sand Filter
    Poolrite SQI 600 pump.
    IG Concrete, quartzon surface
    Built 1997

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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    Im not sure why the directions say that. For that type of clarifier, no more than a few ounces is sufficient or you run into the exact problem you have.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    Good to know . Thanks.
    19,000 gallons
    Zodiac Tri Series SWG
    Hayward S310T Sand Filter
    Poolrite SQI 600 pump.
    IG Concrete, quartzon surface
    Built 1997

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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue114
    Thanks bk406. I followed the directions on the bottle. 20ml per 1000 litres. I put it in and slowly saw the water tranforming to this milky muck. Not daylight here yet but will have a look this morning and report back. I've had the filter going non stop since I did it 19 hrs. ago.
    Brad

    Did you dose based on liters or gallons?
    26' X 52" Intex Ultra Frame. Intex Sand Filter
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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    I dosed on Litres. 20ml x 70000 ltrs. = 1.4 ltrs. of clarifier

    Just checked the pool and it looks much clearer than last night. Whew.
    19,000 gallons
    Zodiac Tri Series SWG
    Hayward S310T Sand Filter
    Poolrite SQI 600 pump.
    IG Concrete, quartzon surface
    Built 1997

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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    Some clarifiers are very concentrated, such as GLB® Clear Blue™ which has dosing of 1 ounce per 5000 gallons, but other clarifiers might be more significantly diluted such as the one you used. I think the cloudiness came from the interaction of the two chemicals.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    When I added clarifier I had to turn off the pump for 24 hrs. All the gunk settled to the bottom and I then vacuumed to waste. ....Just sayin' it worked for me..
    33 ft round x 52", vinyl
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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    Well I dont know how but the pool is clear now and there is no sediment on the bottom. The directions were to run the filter for 8 hrs then vacuum.

    I did backwash and the water that came out was very dirty. The first time in weeks when backwashing, so it must have suspended the fine rubbish and it went thru the filter.

    Chem Geek ,do you think it needs Cal-Stop if I keep the CSI balance correct?

    Brad
    19,000 gallons
    Zodiac Tri Series SWG
    Hayward S310T Sand Filter
    Poolrite SQI 600 pump.
    IG Concrete, quartzon surface
    Built 1997

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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    I don't think you need Cal-Stop if the CSI is kept near zero, perhaps slightly negative if your pool surface is prone to scaling.

    Clarifiers typically clear material to get caught into the filter. It is flocculants that are designed to drop to the floor when the pump is turned off. Though one could try and use a clarifer turning off the pump to hope it will settle, they aren't designed to do that quickly and are better used with the filter running. Of course, the industry often mixes up terminology so these meanings are not universally accepted.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Major chemical setback with Water Clarifier

    Thanks. Pool is actually nice and clear now and all tests are OK.

    Brad
    19,000 gallons
    Zodiac Tri Series SWG
    Hayward S310T Sand Filter
    Poolrite SQI 600 pump.
    IG Concrete, quartzon surface
    Built 1997

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