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Thread: Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebraska]

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    Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebraska]

    See below for pool being installed. Was planning on doing most of the work myself and/or through the help of friends (with skills) to perform all electrical work. Found that the inspector states that homeowners are not allowed to bond the pool themselves! ***? Getting quotes... this is outrageously expensive (for connecting a clamp to wire).

    Need to know if there are any repercussions (now or later) if I were to just do the work myself? I planned to take digital pictures of the entire bonding (to mesh and rebar, etc.) process, before and after concrete pour! And simply make the 220 breaker addition, line, and sub-panel hookups and connections, etc. as DIY.

    What happens if I don't get a permit? And therefore "inspected"?

    -m

    Pool to be installed is 8' x 14' Endless Pools, Inc. modular swim spa.
    Unit to be place half (2') in ground and half (2') above ground within a covered patio area.
    Performance current equivalent to 1:03/100yd speed.
    Hydraulic pump is 220v 23 amp unit.
    Water Quality System is wired 110.
    50000 BTU Gas Heater is wired 110 (for auto pilot and sensor).

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebra

    It's going to depend on local ordinances. There are often laws that only licensed electricians and plumbers can do work in construction. If the inspector doesn't sign the paperwork, you could face fines or even mandatory demolition of the pool. Bonding is a difficult concept that even many electricians don't understand. I wouldn't trust most electricians I've ever come across to do it right.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebra

    Totally local.

    For example, in my area I can do every bit of the work myself. There's not even an inspection process.

    Other parts of the country, you are suppose to call an electrician to change a light bulb.

    You might check your State and city webpages for ordinances relating to construction.
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    Re: Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebra

    If having a licensed electrician is necessary then why do you need an inspector? It must mean that the license is not worth much. This is one of those deals that can drive you crazy as it is not always logical. The inspector shouldn't have any more problem inspecting your work compared to anyone else's.

    Do you have to get a building permit? If so, there will likely be inspections. Whoever the permit comes through (city, county, etc) they will know regulations as far as who can do work. But honestly I don't know how the inspectors know who did the work unless that is filed when the permit is applied for.
    Blaine

    50' x 22' 27k gal shotcrete freeform, 2hp 2 sp Pentair Whisperflo, Pool Pilot RC-52 SWCG, Pentair TR 100 sand filter, Polaris 280, 2 Pentair Intellibrite LED lights with controller, french gray plaster, Butterfield U-20 "smoke"integral colored salt finish concrete cantilever deck on one side, flagstone coping on the other.

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    Re: Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebra

    In my part of the world, you can get a "homeowner's" permit. It is, however, your responsibility to secure the proper inspections and sign offs.
    In the industry, CSP (Certified Service Professional) by the NSPI and it's successor the APSP. My company services over 600 pools every year. I think the practices regularly espoused on this forum (especially the BBB method) are outstanding; however my comments will be often oriented towards the goal of getting it done, and getting it done right now!

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    Re: Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebra

    All this info is good SO do I need to look at the actual code? And if so where do I look?

    Are electricians forced to get a permit and inspection of their own work at their own home? According to what I know, a non-professional permit allows me to dig into the main panel, breakers, sub-panels, wiring, etc., but I can't clamp mesh to a copper wire? AND I agree that I wouldn't trust at all the 3 "professional" electricians with the bonding either since all three I got a quote from said they'd have to talk with the inspector. And two of the three said I'd or they'd have to call another electrician who specializes or is more knowledgeable about bonding. What a pile of political sh*t. I've done enough homework on it now to do it myself, and would be more assured to have all the mesh, rebar, concrete (new and existing), etc. all connected via the #8. And by the way, the EP has it's own bonding wire that runs from the Hydraulic motor to the swim machine and the stainless steel side of the pool.

    As FYI, yes I have a building permit, but the only thing they wanted to inspect was the footer I was going to put in (under) one side of the area (so to enclose it later). But we are no longer putting in the footer so frankly don't know what they'll want to look at (calling tomorrow). The home owner gas-mech permit stated they will only inspect the completed gas line additions. The work, except for actual heater hook up is already done.

    I estimated $400-500 to add a breaker and connect the 220 line (that's already there and run), to add a sub-panel near the pool, and add a 6-10 connection to an equipment box. I've had two estimates, one for $1100-1300 (that didn't include the bonding) and one for $1900 to included the bonding and one additional GFCI change for a light that's over the pool.

    I get the impression the different permit/inspection offices don't speak to each other.

    Again, considering just saying I've cancelled the project, and just completing it myself.
    I mean how does an inspector know IF or WHEN work has been done if the homeowner has simply done it all, and what's existing versus what's new?

    ---
    Endless Pool (modular swim spa); 8' x 14'.
    Unit to be place half (2') in ground and half (2') above ground within a covered patio area.
    Performance current equivalent to 1:03/100yd speed.
    Hydraulic pump is 220v 23 amp unit.
    Water Quality System is wired 110.
    50000 BTU Gas Heater is wired 110 (for auto pilot and sensor).

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    Re: Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebra

    I don't know how things are in your neck of the woods but I can think of a number of reasons why going off the grid on this, so to speak, might not be in your best interest.

    First off, you may find that your house insurance is invalidated by an illegal build, which then also means you could not obtain the recommended umbrella policy that protects you against garnishment in the event of a lawsuit. Our insurance agent, for example, had to come out and take pictures of the pool.

    Secondly, you'd have a heck of a time ever selling the house, because a new survey will show a pool, and most municipal ordinances carry the power to insist on retroactive removal -- which is a lot more expensive than paying an electrician in the first place.

    Thirdly, most municipalities keep an electronic document on file that shows the construction footprint of your home, and now have gps coordinates entered on record (for gas line, easement, metering, etc. In some municipalities you can access that online and compare via google earth. Often this data is used by assessors who periodically adjust local and state market evaluations for tax purposes.

    Last but not least, maybe today your neighbors are great but there's always the next guy who might move in and complain about a pool party or whether your fence is locked so you could in theory be vulnerable to malicious reporting as well.

    A pool's a pretty big investment, and the bonding is really a small fraction of that. It doesn't seem it would serve you to have to worry about any of the foregoing while enjoying your pool
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebra

    My pool had a bonding inspection but the PB's crew did the bonding, not the electrician. All the electrician did was hook the bonding wire to the equipment after the rest was already done.

    Call the permit office and ask them. They could at least tell you where to look if hey don't know the answer. It seems like you could do the work and call for the inspection if you are the permit holder, it will either pass or fail.
    Blaine

    50' x 22' 27k gal shotcrete freeform, 2hp 2 sp Pentair Whisperflo, Pool Pilot RC-52 SWCG, Pentair TR 100 sand filter, Polaris 280, 2 Pentair Intellibrite LED lights with controller, french gray plaster, Butterfield U-20 "smoke"integral colored salt finish concrete cantilever deck on one side, flagstone coping on the other.

    My pool build:
    osage-hills-pool-build-t50526.html

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    Re: Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebra

    Both of you have good responses. The footprint doesn't change for me as the EP Swim Spa is 1) contained within a covered patio area, and 2) most likely will be packed up and moved with us, IF we ever do that is. This is a free standing, self-contained modular swim spa, however the local electrical inspector says it doesn't matter.

    I would normally not complain (ok, I still would but not to this extent) except for the local electricians know this and are certainly taking advantage of pricing their work. One firm estimated $700 just to bond the concrete... seriously? I know JohnT states above it's a difficult concept, but I don't see how doing the bonding is difficult... how hard is the concept of connecting ALL metal!

    I'll attach pictures either way... looks like I will "dig" into the NEC a little. I have the area excavated and cleared and stakes for flooring done. Mind you I'm doing most of this work myself!

    By the way, just contacted and my Endless Pools, Inc. swim spa/pool equipment is being delivered tomorrow! Yay. Of course, I don't even have the concrete poured yet, but I'll get there!

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    Re: Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebra

    Yes, I didn't realize at first what an endless pool was per se. My response was more geared to a regular IG
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebra

    Just posting first pics of area, and current status view.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebra

    Well I'm just south of you in Kansas. Here there are very different rules/codes/ordinances/standards based on where you live. City requires all permits for every step of the build to include return inspections for actual hook up- cant be at the same time(crazy) its about $$$$
    Rural or County uses the same permit office, process and inspectors but the rules are very simple. Homeowner-yes you pay your fee for the permit and only required to have the inspector come check your electrical run before being buried then return trip for actual hook up unless you can do it while he's there- start backfilling while he's walking the trench! (that's what kids are for)
    No electrician required unless its screwed up when he comes out, then you get one more chance.
    Ron- Kansas. IG fiberglass, Riviera 30 Freeform 13600 gallons,
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    Re: Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebra

    Just noting any progress... No change really to date. RECEIVED my Endless Pool so sit's in the garage while I'm figuring out the equipotential bonding and other electrical items, getting more quotes, etc. I guess I will be asking every electrical contractor in a 50 mile radius until I find one that cuts me a break on the price.

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    Re: Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebra

    Parts have arrived.
    No concrete yet! Electrical work delay!

    Endless Pools, Inc. 8'x14'x48"(45"water depth) modular swim spa, Performance Current at 1:03/100.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: Repercussion for NOT hiring "licenced"Electrician?[Nebra

    Pool Details: 25,440 Gal IG Vinyl 21x40 Mountain Pond (Graphex)
    Filter: Hayward Micro-Clear DE (48 Sq Ft)
    Pump: Hayward SP2603VSP VS Super Pump
    SWG: Circupool Si45
    Cleaner: Pentair Kreepy Krauly Prowler 820

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