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Thread: Help with the procedure of balancing water ?

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    Help with the procedure of balancing water ?

    I tried to read the forum to find out if there is a correct procedure to follow when balancing the water.
    I didn't really find what I was looking for. Is their information on this somewhere I missed ?

    It seems I should adjust the ph first and then chlorine ? But I thought I would ask here first.

    Also, I just did a partial water drain more then half on this fiberglass pool to get my CYA levels down they were 150,
    I was surprised it only dropped to 100 .

    Now I want to have the water balanced and then in a few months I will do another partial drain.

    I want to lower the TA because I do have scaling issues which I will deal with at a later time.

    I have read pool school on lowering the TA and aeration, my pool has a spill over from the spa to help with the aeration .
    I am just not sure weather to bump the chlorine up or shock the pool first with this new water or adjust the ph first . Is there a proper order to follow ? I am in California and we have pretty warm weather here I didn't want to start an algae problem. Today is another day in the 90s and I am sure the chlorine will burn off fast .

    My test readings are
    Free C.= 1.4
    C,C - 0.04
    PH. - 7.7
    TA - 170
    CYA- 100
    CSI= 0.5

    6000 gal fiber glass pool with spa spill over , ( Was using the Frog automatic chlorinator ) until I found this site.
    6000 gallon Viking fiber glass pool Blue Safire with 250gallon Spa spill over , (Frog chlorinator not hooked up ) , Jandy filter cartridge, Sta-Rite heater 333 Btu , Liquidator

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Help with the procedure of balancing water ?

    Your chlorine is much too low for 100ppm CYA. The Chlorine CYA Chart will show you that you need to maintain your chlorine above 7ppm, preferably around 12ppm with that CYA. CYA testing is not at all accurate over 100ppm, so your experience with draining isn't surprising.

    Though lowering TA can help with scaling, you really need to keep your calcium hardness low and keep your pH in the lower end of the range.
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    Re: Help with the procedure of balancing water ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT
    Your chlorine is much too low for 100ppm CYA. The Chlorine CYA Chart will show you that you need to maintain your chlorine above 7ppm, preferably around 12ppm with that CYA. CYA testing is not at all accurate over 100ppm, so your experience with draining isn't surprising.

    Though lowering TA can help with scaling, you really need to keep your calcium hardness low and keep your pH in the lower end of the range.
    Yes I saw that on the chart, minimum is 7 . I just wasn't sure If I should raise the chlorine first ?
    Or lower the ph and try and get the TA lower ?
    I was looking for a procedure or steps on what order to follow ?
    If there is such a procedure ?
    My calcium is high right out of the tap .
    I will have to read on how to lower it.
    Thanks for the advice
    Mark
    6000 gallon Viking fiber glass pool Blue Safire with 250gallon Spa spill over , (Frog chlorinator not hooked up ) , Jandy filter cartridge, Sta-Rite heater 333 Btu , Liquidator

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Re: Help with the procedure of balancing water ?

    Your pH is fine at 7.7 but your FC is low and needs to be raised ASAP to about 12 with liquid. You will need to keep a minimum FC level of 7 with that high of CYA. Have you tested your CYA with dilution, 50/50 mix of pool water and tap water, to see if the test reads 50 ppm? Whenever CYA reads 100 it can actually be much more than that as most CYA tests max out at 100. Your pool will be a lot easier to take care of if you do another half drain.

    How does your water look and what test kit do you have? If the pool is not clear you should start the shock process but I highly suggest another 1/2 drain before you start shocking it. You will probably save enough money to pay for 3000 gallons of water than needing to buy enough bleach to shock it. You would still need to shock it after the fill but it will be much easier to clear up the pool with the lower CYA.

    If you need to shock, it is best to lower the pH to around 7.2 before you start the shock process. Your scaling issues are more associated with your pH and CH levels rather than your TA. The TA is more or less a buffer for the pH.

    I just read some of the replys before I posted this, but here it is anyways.

    There really isn't a procedure that says you must do XYZ in this order as each pool is different ,and those differences determine what should be worked on first. In your case, you need to raise your FC as this is the parameter that you can fix now. Let us know how the water looks and if you can hold the FC. This will determine your next step that you should take.
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    Re: Help with the procedure of balancing water ?

    Ping
    My water looks great clear and sparkling . I am using the Taylor K 2006 test kit just arrived yesterday.
    I have not tested CYA with Dilution 50/50 mix . I will try it as soon as I am done writing here.
    Ok you answered my question about procedure thanks !
    I am going to raise the FC to 7 or higher using the desired amount from the Pool Caculator ( 3 cups 7 oz)
    I will test again tonight and tomorrow to see if it holds .
    I guess I will drain it again this weekend because what you say makes sense.
    I am just really disappointed that the first drain did not work.
    Wish I have the guts to drain it all the way but I am to afraid the sides will buckle not really concerned it will pop up out of the ground.
    I will also test my CH out of my tap'.
    At least I have a plan now Thanks !
    I will keep you posted.
    6000 gallon Viking fiber glass pool Blue Safire with 250gallon Spa spill over , (Frog chlorinator not hooked up ) , Jandy filter cartridge, Sta-Rite heater 333 Btu , Liquidator

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Help with the procedure of balancing water ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nomad26
    I tried to read the forum to find out if there is a correct procedure to follow when balancing the water.
    I didn't really find what I was looking for. Is their information on this somewhere I missed ?

    It seems I should adjust the ph first and then chlorine ? But I thought I would ask here first.

    Also, I just did a partial water drain more then half on this fiberglass pool to get my CYA levels down they were 150,
    I was surprised it only dropped to 100 .

    Now I want to have the water balanced and then in a few months I will do another partial drain.

    I want to lower the TA because I do have scaling issues which I will deal with at a later time.

    I have read pool school on lowering the TA and aeration, my pool has a spill over from the spa to help with the aeration .
    I am just not sure weather to bump the chlorine up or shock the pool first with this new water or adjust the ph first . Is there a proper order to follow ? I am in California and we have pretty warm weather here I didn't want to start an algae problem. Today is another day in the 90s and I am sure the chlorine will burn off fast .

    My test readings are
    Free C.= 1.4
    C,C - 0.04
    PH. - 7.7
    TA - 170
    CYA- 100
    CSI= 0.5

    6000 gal fiber glass pool with spa spill over , ( Was using the Frog automatic chlorinator ) until I found this site.

    Just to be clear - it appears that you are using a pool store not a test kit to get your numbers - if so there is a very good chance the test is not accurate. You may want to get some type of CYA enabled test like the ones listed on the site here and test for yourself.

    Also if I were in your position and NOT planning to drain more I would lower pH first because you have a target FC level > 10. If you have FC = 10 or higher then you will not be able to measure pH reliably without complicated tricks. Overall your best choice will be to lower CYA if it is anywhere near 100.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
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  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Help with the procedure of balancing water ?

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderWaterVanya
    Quote Originally Posted by nomad26
    I tried to read the forum to find out if there is a correct procedure to follow when balancing the water.
    I didn't really find what I was looking for. Is their information on this somewhere I missed ?

    It seems I should adjust the ph first and then chlorine ? But I thought I would ask here first.

    Also, I just did a partial water drain more then half on this fiberglass pool to get my CYA levels down they were 150,
    I was surprised it only dropped to 100 .

    Now I want to have the water balanced and then in a few months I will do another partial drain.

    I want to lower the TA because I do have scaling issues which I will deal with at a later time.

    I have read pool school on lowering the TA and aeration, my pool has a spill over from the spa to help with the aeration .
    I am just not sure weather to bump the chlorine up or shock the pool first with this new water or adjust the ph first . Is there a proper order to follow ? I am in California and we have pretty warm weather here I didn't want to start an algae problem. Today is another day in the 90s and I am sure the chlorine will burn off fast .

    My test readings are
    Free C.= 1.4
    C,C - 0.04
    PH. - 7.7
    TA - 170
    CYA- 100
    CSI= 0.5

    6000 gal fiber glass pool with spa spill over , ( Was using the Frog automatic chlorinator ) until I found this site.

    Just to be clear - it appears that you are using a pool store not a test kit to get your numbers - if so there is a very good chance the test is not accurate. You may want to get some type of CYA enabled test like the ones listed on the site here and test for yourself.

    Also if I were in your position and NOT planning to drain more I would lower pH first because you have a target FC level > 10. If you have FC = 10 or higher then you will not be able to measure pH reliably without complicated tricks. Overall your best choice will be to lower CYA if it is anywhere near 100.
    I am testing with the new kit I received yesterday Taylor K 2006 . No more store testing. So these numbers are accurate .
    I think I will drain again this weekend from the advice I am getting from you and Ping . I didn't want to but I see now its just the right thing to do, I need to get the CYA levels lower.
    I am going to put some chlorine in it just to keep it from getting any algae for a couple of days its pretty hot here.
    The pool looks great but the walls are a bit slimy already.
    Thanks
    6000 gallon Viking fiber glass pool Blue Safire with 250gallon Spa spill over , (Frog chlorinator not hooked up ) , Jandy filter cartridge, Sta-Rite heater 333 Btu , Liquidator

  8. Back To Top    #8
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Help with the procedure of balancing water ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nomad26
    My test readings are
    Free C.= 1.4
    C,C - 0.04
    PH. - 7.7
    TA - 170
    CYA- 100
    CSI= 0.5

    ...I am testing with the new kit I received yesterday Taylor K 2006 . No more store testing. So these numbers are accurate .
    Sorry about my confusion I made the assumption this was pool store testing due to the numbers for CC's. CC=0.04 is not a valid measurement that you can get with the kits recommended here. Perhaps you mean 0.4? If so it sounds like you are using a 25ml test for FC/CC - switch to a 10ml test to save reagent the 0.5ppm granularity is accurate enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by nomad26
    I think I will drain again this weekend from the advice I am getting from you and Ping . I didn't want to but I see now its just the right thing to do, I need to get the CYA levels lower.
    Probably best. I'm guessing the 150 CYA before you drained was tested by a pool store? The testing is notoriously bad and the test itself isn't very reliable > 100 CYA. By diluting 50/50 and retesting you have a better grip on what your actual CYA is. This can help you decide how much draining you need to do. The tough part is that your kit only has enough material to test CYA about 4 times. You may just want to bite the bullet and drain as much as your are prepared to and then measure after refilling. You may be disappointed by the results but it won't really change the result if you are only willing to drain so far. If you get to 30-50 that's best but you can manage the pool at higher CYA. The closer to 50 the better.

    Quote Originally Posted by nomad26
    I am going to put some chlorine in it just to keep it from getting any algae for a couple of days its pretty hot here. The pool looks great but the walls are a bit slimy already.
    Smart. Wait on the pH until you are done with the drain and refill since the fill water will alter this.

    While you are at it test the fill water for TA and CH and if you want FC/CC - don't bother with CYA obviously. Doing this can help you learn the testing process and also help you predict what the future TA/CH will be post refill.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
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  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Help with the procedure of balancing water ?

    I tested the water out of the tap .
    FC - 0.5
    CC-0.5 or 0
    CYA - 0
    PH - 8.0
    TA - 150
    CH -270

    I also tested 1/2 tap and 1/2 pool water for CYA did it twice I keep getting 60 .
    I need an explanation why I would test half pool water and half fill water ? What is this telling me ?
    I have bought a big bottle to test CYA lots of times as well as extra FC tests.
    I see what you mean about using the 10ml line to test with .
    I am wondering all these years my CH was high along with TA high is what caused all this scaling ?
    For months at a time I would never test the pool I would just look out there to see if it was clear and had no algae .
    This scale is so bad when you drain the pool its white the good thing is when there is water in it . It looks blue again.
    Maybe I can live with the scale. Not sure I want to perform the acid bath and lose the gel coat. We will see . First things first ,I have to get this CYA down and get off the Frog Chlornator.
    I am learning allot.
    Thanks again UnderWaterVanya
    Mark
    6000 gallon Viking fiber glass pool Blue Safire with 250gallon Spa spill over , (Frog chlorinator not hooked up ) , Jandy filter cartridge, Sta-Rite heater 333 Btu , Liquidator

  10. Back To Top    #10
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Help with the procedure of balancing water ?

    50/50 CYA test gives you a more accurate picture when you get 100+ on the normal test. Multiply the result by 2x (60 was how much was in the test but only half of the water contained any cya thus the concentration is actually twice what you measured. CYA = 120)

    High TA and CH with poor attention to pH would scale I'd say. Lowering the CSI index a little below optimal can slowly reverse scaling if you are very patient - at least that is what I have read here.


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    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Help with the procedure of balancing water ?

    50/50 CYA test gives you a more accurate picture when you get 100+ on the normal test. Multiply the result by 2x (60 was how much was in the test but only half of the water contained any cya thus the concentration is actually twice what you measured. CYA = 120)

    Thanks thats what I thought but I wanted to ask to be sure . Great explanation
    I will drain the pool this weekend and post on here for more help
    6000 gallon Viking fiber glass pool Blue Safire with 250gallon Spa spill over , (Frog chlorinator not hooked up ) , Jandy filter cartridge, Sta-Rite heater 333 Btu , Liquidator

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Help with the procedure of balancing water ?

    I have preformed another drain and fill . The second time was successful removing CYA levels below 20.
    I used both test kits the K 2006 which filled to the top and I could barely see the black dot and on my Pro Color Q it read 13.
    I can bring this CYA back up to 30 by using the Trichlor in my Frog system or maybe I will get some other advice on here ?
    I was thinking I would try and lower the TA and then aerate to bring Ph back up and then bring my FC back up.
    Over time I would like to keep the PH & TA lower and Saturation Index lower to help remove the white scaling
    Any suggestions ?

    Here are the test with the new water
    FC= 0.5
    CC= 0
    PH- 7.2
    TA-200-210
    CC-250
    CYA 13-20
    Saturation index -0.3
    6000 gallon Viking fiber glass pool Blue Safire with 250gallon Spa spill over , (Frog chlorinator not hooked up ) , Jandy filter cartridge, Sta-Rite heater 333 Btu , Liquidator

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Help with the procedure of balancing water ?

    You know that the FC is too low and that's the first thing I'd work on.
    pH is fine and your plan to lower your TA is good. That's not something you have to be in a rush about and you can work on that in your leisure.
    That second CC number I hope is really CH and if so, it's fine.
    Your CYA is a little low unless it's an indoor pool and then it's fine. If it's outdoor, you'll want to raise it to about 40 depending on your location.

    Don't worry about the SI. If you'll keep your pool within the ranges recommended here you'll be fine.
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  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Help with the procedure of balancing water ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    You know that the FC is too low and that's the first thing I'd work on.
    pH is fine and your plan to lower your TA is good. That's not something you have to be in a rush about and you can work on that in your leisure.
    That second CC number I hope is really CH and if so, it's fine.
    Your CYA is a little low unless it's an indoor pool and then it's fine. If it's outdoor, you'll want to raise it to about 40 depending on your location.

    Don't worry about the SI. If you'll keep your pool within the ranges recommended here you'll be fine.
    Bama
    Thats great advice and easy for me to understand ! I will raise the FC and slowly lower the TA.
    Yes the CC number was meant to be CH,
    Thanks again I appreciate your advice.
    Great Site !
    Mark
    6000 gallon Viking fiber glass pool Blue Safire with 250gallon Spa spill over , (Frog chlorinator not hooked up ) , Jandy filter cartridge, Sta-Rite heater 333 Btu , Liquidator

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