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Thread: Backfill for new pool?

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    Backfill for new pool?

    Hey everyone,

    I'm new to this forum so I'm not sure if this question has already been answer so if it has sorry. I'm having a 16x32 rectangular vinyl pool installed next week. I decided to go with paver stone for the coping & decking. My pool installer is going to back fill the pool with sand & pour 3 feet of concrete up to the top mount coping. I was talking to the guy that is doing the stone work and he recommended backfilling around the pool with either HBP aggregate or clear gravel. He said over time the concrete will settle on the sand therefor shifting the paver stone that is laid on top. Has anyone had this problem? What do most people backfill their pool with?
    15K, 16x32 IG vinyl, Jandy 1 Hp Pump, Jandy sand filter, Zodiac Salt System, 266 Raypak Digital Heater N/G, 2 LED Aqualamps, Clear Deck Solar Roller, 2 12" Sheer Descent waterfalls, K-2006 w/ Speedstir.

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    Re: Backfill for new pool?

    Quote Originally Posted by Judge
    Hey everyone,

    I'm new to this forum so I'm not sure if this question has already been answer so if it has sorry. I'm having a 16x32 rectangular vinyl pool installed next week. I decided to go with paver stone for the coping & decking. My pool installer is going to back fill the pool with sand & pour 3 feet of concrete up to the top mount coping. I was talking to the guy that is doing the stone work and he recommended backfilling around the pool with either HBP aggregate or clear gravel. He said over time the concrete will settle on the sand therefor shifting the paver stone that is laid on top. Has anyone had this problem? What do most people backfill their pool with?
    i backfilled mine from the excavated dirt and tamped it every foot. no paver shift in 5 yrs
    17,000 gal inground
    vinyl
    swg
    3hp 8 returns
    heat siphon heat pump

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    Re: Backfill for new pool?

    Sand is not really a good backfill.....it shifts too easily. Clean rock is generally the best as it has very little compaction.

    Backfilling with dirt and then pouring concrete on top will almost always fail, mikeginder.........Pavers are completely different.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Backfill for new pool?

    3/4" stone up to about 2.5 feet from the top, then gravel. Stone wont compact enough for a good sub base for the pavers.
    Nix the sand.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Backfill for new pool?

    Thanks guys for the reply. I talked to the pool builder today and he's gonna put in 3/4 HPB and clean grave for the rest.

    Cheers!!
    15K, 16x32 IG vinyl, Jandy 1 Hp Pump, Jandy sand filter, Zodiac Salt System, 266 Raypak Digital Heater N/G, 2 LED Aqualamps, Clear Deck Solar Roller, 2 12" Sheer Descent waterfalls, K-2006 w/ Speedstir.

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    Re: Backfill for new pool?

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Sand is not really a good backfill.....it shifts too easily. Clean rock is generally the best as it has very little compaction.

    Backfilling with dirt and then pouring concrete on top will almost always fail, mikeginder.........Pavers are completely different.
    agreed but i thought he was doing pavers and just so there is no confusion on top of the dirt was a tamped base of 2b modiifed, then sand to set the pavers
    17,000 gal inground
    vinyl
    swg
    3hp 8 returns
    heat siphon heat pump

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    Re: Backfill for new pool?

    Sand for pavers is only 4 inches or so deep. The op was taking about backfilling the over dig with sand.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Backfill for new pool?

    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    Sand for pavers is only 4 inches or so deep. The op was taking about backfilling the over dig with sand.
    guess it can depend on the paver, i had some fairly big ones and it called for 2" of sand
    17,000 gal inground
    vinyl
    swg
    3hp 8 returns
    heat siphon heat pump

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    Re: Backfill for new pool?

    Doesn't matter much who calls for what. 4 inches of sand below a paver is what u want. And I wouldnt use sand anyway. Stone dust is a superior product for a paver base anyway.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Backfill for new pool?

    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    Doesn't matter much who calls for what. 4 inches of sand below a paver is what u want. And I wouldnt use sand anyway. Stone dust is a superior product for a paver base anyway.
    well, when i installed mine i did use stone dust however when i did an addition last year i used sand. Come to think of it I used 1" of sand because i used 1" pipe to run the screed across. Sand was much easier to work with although it did compact more then the dust, so i had to keep that in mind for final height

    When using 4"s of sand how do you level it in preparation for the pavers?
    17,000 gal inground
    vinyl
    swg
    3hp 8 returns
    heat siphon heat pump

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    Re: Backfill for new pool?

    Use forms made out of 1x4s and screed the sand or stone dust to the top of the forms. Best if you have a transit.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Backfill for new pool?

    I'm with mikegrinder on this one. 1" is what is trypically recommended for setting bed depth by every major paver manufacturer I have ever dealt with. Now, I realize sometimes going outside of what the specs call for is sometimes necessary......but 4"?! I cannot see a benefit for going that deep.

    ...and to say that stone dust is a superior product to washed sand as a setting bed is completely innaccurate. I realize SD has been used for years, but again, most manufacturers are now suggesting using sand. There's pros + cons for each material , but a key difference is that due to stone dust's powdery nature it inhibits drainage. It absorbs moisture, holds on to it and drains very slowly. In areas with freeze/thaw cycles, pavers can an experience heaving. I understand that SD can be a suitable material for certain applications, but to say it's superior to sand is simply not true.

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    Re: Backfill for new pool?

    Interesting discussion with NO absolute answer. As long as it stays cordial, and the discussion is furthered wherein we can all learn something.....it can stay. If it devolves, I will lock it.

    Please keep in mind that the OP question has been completely hijacked. All he wanted to know was best practices for concrete....not pavers.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Backfill for new pool?

    I'm done Dave.

    I guess 25 plus years experience in landscaping/hardscaping and building trades doesn't count for as much as it used too
    Seriously, paver companies, or any company that sells materials will tell you the bare minimum or in some cases below minimum to keep cost estimates lower so you will buy the product. I also tend to build above specs and above code. I tend to look at specs and code as a minimum. Yea, if i do a job its gonna cost more, but it'll last and be done right.
    The reason I like 4 inches is that it's easy to set 1x4 forms on top of my compacted base. I figure the height of the paver plus 3.5" for SD/sand (height of my 1x4) for my finished level. Once I get my finished height marked off, I know how high to bring my gravel base up too. I also use a DeWalt laser transit to shoot everything so I know where my forms need to come too. So I really use the sand/SD to level it all off so once I set the pavers, everything is level with the top of the coping or existing grade. So the reality is the paver underlayment is anywhere from 2.5 to 4 inches depending on what makes level. At any rate, 1 inch isn't something I would consider doing.

    As far as stone dust vs sand, that discussion is as old as Methusala. You'll find it about split 50-50. I prefer stone dust, but have used sand too. I just prefer the SD and have had better results. And if I read the op's original post, he did say he was installing pavers.
    And yes, the op's question was answered. Stone and gravel for backfill.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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