Variable Returns

[MarkPristine]

Found a great price on amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Eco-Blu-iBall-Vel ... B006W2Y5FG

Something tells me my order will never ship.

LMAO I ordered some just for the heck of it

I'm a pool tech and saw that my local distributor sells just the iBalls. I looked on the internet and "in the swim" has limited selection, but my guess is to call them and see what they have in stock. Chances are they can get just the inner eyeball or whatever color that you need for a complete unit. Or just call EcoBlu direct.....they should know who carries what or maybe they sell direct.

I'm a pool tech also and I can get the complete White Threaded for less than the iBall only @ $17.00 and change. All you have to do is take them apart and then you have your insert only.

I don't think we're going to get our orders either Cajun, but if you need them P.M. me USPS Priority mail to Texas for I'm guessing probably up to 10 or 12 of them complete is only $5.30 for their 12 1/2 x 9 1/2 padded envelope. If you can't find them what ever my cost is and the $5.30 USPS I'll help you out if you would like.

 

[poolneophyte]

I installed the new iBall Velocity variable return fittings in my pool at the beginning of August and have been meaning to post a complete review but I got very busy at work and couldn't get the time. In the few seasons since I had the pool built, I have tried various types and sizes of return fittings to optimize the energy savings of my Jandy variable speed pump. I found that when I sized the returns to achieve good water movement at lower pump speeds, they were much too restrictive at higher pump speeds. I saw the Youtube video for the new iBall Velocity return fittings and decided that I would give them a try.

I took data before and after the replacement of my three return fittings. I have attached a summary of the data if anyone wants to see a before and after comparison.

For my testing, I used pump speeds which have flow curves in the pump owners manual. These are 1500, 2400, 3000 and 3450 RPM. I also tested at 2800 RPM since that is the normal filtration speed which I have been using for the last couple of years. I have a 3-way valve on the suction side which selects between the skimmers, main drain or mix of both. I generally run the pump with a mix of both and left the 3-way valve in a fixed position throughout the test.

Flow readings were taken with a recently installed FlowVis flow meter which I purchased from TFTestkits. Take a look at this thread http://www.troublefreepool.com/check-valve-flow-meter-install-t51095.html for info on the flow meter.

The pressure readings were taken from the gauge on the filter. I know it's not the most accurate of gauges but it's all I have.

Watt readings were taken through the control system directly from the Jandy ePump.

Test data is as follows:
[attachment=0:1wuhh0hn]iBall Velocity Data.pdf[/attachment:1wuhh0hn]
Results:

I think that the iBall Velocity returns generally do what the manufacturer claims. I have been able to run the pump at a slower speed and still maintain good water distribution. I am also able to increase the pump speed (for vacuuming or better surface skimming) with lower filter pressures and higher flow than before. Two things that concern me is how well the silicone material will hold up to constant chlorine exposure and what happens to performance as the material stretches out over time.

Also, I'm not sure how to know when the filter needs a backwash using the filter's pressure gauge. My theory is that as the filter gets dirtier, the flow will reduce as a function of the resistance. The iBall Velocity fittings will see the lower flow rate and open up to maintain a constant velocity. I'm thinking that I may need to monitor the pump motor watt reading and/or the flow meter to determine when to backwash.

Hopefully this helps.

 

[ctxbound]

That data is awesome. Gives us a good idea of whats going on. So basically if you wanted a flow of 39 gpm, you could run the pump at 2400 rpm with the iBall or use the old setup and run it at 3000rpm. Which wouldn't make sense because at 2400 RPM your saving 440 watts(give or take a few watts, I just did quick math).

I also did some research myself, talked to a rep and heres what he had to say. "there is a limited one year warranty on the product, which in testing has only seen the blue fade with high chemical abuse". Asked him to define that and he said they basically poured liquid chlorine in a cup and threw them in for a long time.

As far as ripping, he said that the product has been in pools for over 8 months with no signs of wearing. He also said they expect 2-3 seasons before replacement and that they are a wear item. And as far as "stretching" there is a small break in window that allows for some stretching but it shouldn't affect performance. If you run your pump at a certain speed a majority of the time, then it will conform to that speed, meaning that it wont just start to stretch to a larger size. During times of ramping up the pump speed it would still expand and then contract when the speed it put back to normal filtering cycles.

I just installed these in five different pools. Some are salt systems, some are chlorine tab systems. They are all 1.5" threaded housings, and the range of power draw of these pumps are from 220 watts to 495 watts per hour and Im running all of them running for 24 hours.

 

[ctxbound]

Hey poolneophyte I would use the watts as guide to when the filter needs backwashing/cleaning. Another way is to look at your skimmers; the returns will adjust but the skimmers wont, so if the flow into the skimmers are weaker than what they should be at a given rpm....do a good ol' cleaning

 

[Cajun]

I'm confused as what's causing the flow rate at the pump to increase at the same rpm. At first I thought you were somehow measuring this as the iball exit but now I see it's at the pump itself. I don't understand how constricting the output would increase the flow rate at the pump. I understand the increase in preasure but not flow rate at the pump, What am I missing.

As for determining when to clean I typically run my pump at 90% when setting and verifying the psi increase from a dirty filter. I would suspect at Higher speeds the iball would be wide open regardless if the filter was dirty or not so I would just continue to check in the same way.

 

[poolneophyte]

I'm confused as what's causing the flow rate at the pump to increase at the same rpm.

I can't explain it and was hoping that one of the pumping experts on this forum would come along and shed some light on it for us. I think that the iBall Velocity return fittings offer less resistance than the fixed returns that I was using which results in higher flow at a given RPM.

I would use the watts as guide to when the filter needs backwashing/cleaning

That's kind of what I have been doing. Prior to the install, I would do a backwash and then take note of the filter pressure at 3000 RPM. Then, every so often, I would set the pump at 3000 RPM and check the pressure to determine if a backwash is needed. Now, I have information overload knowing pump watts, flow, filter pressure and am still trying to determine the effect of the variable returns. Overall, I am happy with the results.

So basically if you wanted a flow of 39 gpm, you could run the pump at 2400 rpm with the iBall or use the old setup and run it at 3000rpm. Which wouldn't make sense because at 2400 RPM your saving 440 watts(give or take a few watts, I just did quick math).

That's an interesting way of looking at this that I didn't think of. You're right in that I can achieve the same flow using less energy. More importantly, the variable returns keep discharge velocities somewhat constant which helps with water circulation at lower pump speeds.

 

[Cajun]

I'm confused as what's causing the flow rate at the pump to increase at the same rpm.

I can't explain it and was hoping that one of the pumping experts on this forum would come along and shed some light on it for us. I think that the iBall Velocity return fittings offer less resistance than the fixed returns that I was using which results in higher flow at a given RPM.

ah ok I assumed you were using standard 1" return fittings. We're you using something smaller? If you were using a smaller return then that would make since. I assume the iball max opening is 1" so it would be intresting to compare that to a standard 1" return. I suspect in this comparison the iball flow would be less but the pool water movement would be greater.

What size returns were you using before the iball?

 

[poolneophyte]

Cajun,

I had two Hayward Hydrosweep returns with slotted openings (model SP1419A) and one 3/4" regular eyeball return.

 

[ctxbound]

poolnephyte, why the hayward hydrosweeps, improve agitation?

 

[poolneophyte]

I saw the Hydrosweeps mentioned in a couple of threads and thought that I would give them a try. They worked very well at directing water along the wall which created good circulation for surface skimming. But, at higher pump speeds, they provided too much resistance and the filter pressure went up a lot. I also noticed that they made a strange "suction like" sound when running the pump anywhere above the middle of the speed range. I got them very cheap from an Ebay seller and decided to see how they worked.

 

[ctxbound]

Fair enough, thank u for the input

 

[ctxbound]

has anyone else got data to share or results? So far the ones I have in are working great!